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| teenie (785hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell ................................... I have to ask you if you have, have you already driven the i4? If so, what are your actual impressions compared to your actual impressions of the i6? Here's a real user experience from another guy for the i4 528 http://forums.5series.net/topic/1165...p/page__st__15 Topic #19 Well guys, I'm sorry to report that for me , the 4 banger doesn't work. I read the articles calling for better numbers and faster speeds and I was very hopeful. But when driving in traffic, this thing takes forever to get going and get going. I counted out loud to the salesman and it took over 2 seconds for the power to kick in. And frankly, you can run through the numbers once you're behind the wheel - it's quite a seat of the pants . It was so disappointing that I finished the test drive in 10 minutes. There is no way I would buy a 5er with this engine, let alone it being a brand new one with no history. IMO, the 2011 IL6 did a much better job powering the 528... Better to test one yourself before putting down the deposit for the 2012 528
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| thomas18 (688hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell The new i4 turbo is a decent engine. With the new i4 5 Series, I averaged 37 mpg on a 125-mile city (20 km) drive but mostly on the highway at speeds between 70 mph and 75 mph. ..... I will say that I'm sad that there is very visible turbo lag with the i4. And I think you'll see a lot of complaints here about that. Quote: Posted by Mitchell The other thing is that if you drive the 528i i4 properly, you will almost never feel the lag. I said this because I see this becoming a problem for people who want to stand on it at 2500 rpm and pass someone. Downshift a few gears to get the revs to 5,000 and put your foot in it and you'll eliminate lag in almost every car that people complain about turbo lag. Quote: Originally posted by mit Here is another guy's real user experience for the i4 528 Topic #19 I counted out loud to the seller and it took over 2 seconds for power to come in Thu. Better test one yourself before putting down the deposit for the 2012 528s, the complaints will definitely pour in I'm sure. As I said in one of my articles above, on your next test drive, change gears before you put your foot in it, it really helps. The automatic gearbox really feels bad too, because it feels so sloppy on its own. Buy the 528i with i4 if you want economy and a nice cruiser. Buy 535, 550 or m5 for something with a little more rider feel.
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| sundin13 (730hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell This is where we differ 1. 528 is the cheapest 5 series in this discussion. This makes it the low entry in the range. This doesn't make the buyer a little man trying to gain status by purchasing it. Maybe the buyer wants to drive 100 miles each way per day and wants a nice car that can get a few more mpg than a 535 and is willing to sacrifice a little power to do so. I don't know where you think and argue that their status is part of all this. Your argument about something that doesn't exist makes it difficult for me to read anything else you say that has much value to your reasoning. So 528<.535<.550? That's what the numbers say, but if you follow the designation entirely, you're missing a lot. The 528 is a NA 3.0, the 535 is a 3.0 turbo. If turbos were absolutely superior to NAs, wouldn't all cars have them now (well, they do now, but because of eco regulations)? No, because the turbo has DISADVANTAGES. Of course, BMW, or any company selling something, wants us to follow their "point of view" on what they are selling, but if you actually understand the subject matter you can see that there are discrepancies between what what they claim to sell and what it actually is. . Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell 2. I agree that those excited about the i6 may be sad to see it go. But anyone who feels that the i6 was significantly underpowered in the 5 will probably be indifferent. For me, the 528 has always been about cruising in style and comfort while maintaining some sort of efficiency and nothing about putting your foot down and feeling the rush. I don't like my N52 f10 for eco-cruising. I can't wait for the engine to warm up so I can get it up to 7 rpm. That's why the "528" with the 255 hp N52 is so special...you get a racy engine (with the impressive 8-speed automatic) for a non-premium price. Now with the 2.0T 528 the whole range is streamlined...you more or less get what you pay for. Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell 3 I'm not drawn to the marketing because I've driven both and think each is equally unimpressive, which led me to lean towards the one that offers the best mileage. I have to ask, have you ever driven the i4? If so, what are your actual impressions compared to your actual impressions of the i6? You should ride the N52 f10, if you still don't like it...but that's what I like. I haven't driven the new N20, who knows? I might be totally impressed. But this is what he is faced with, in the N52.
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| eddie23 (187hp) | Quote: Posted by grimlock You should drive the N52 F10, if you still don't like it.. Race it?? What against a VW Polo? I have a really hard time reading your writing. I'm sure you must understand some point because it just doesn't apply to all the languages I can only guess we go through..
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| woshishen (785hp) | (1) To say that it is not possible to reproduce the torque curve of an NA motor with a reasonably smaller displacement forced induction motor is false. If you don't care how, skip to (2)! If you want a maximum horsepower engine, put a turbo that's way too big on your engine and you'll feel the sensation of increasing torque as high as your engine revs before the connecting rod bolts break. However, you've just sacrificed low-end torque and handling on the road, where 99.99% of these cars drive. One of the first things a builder does when designing a base engine is to determine the torque curve they want the engine to produce. Then they design the engine around that goal. The goal of their turbo engines is to maximize fuel efficiency at part throttle while providing more area under the torque curve, effectively increasing vehicle performance. Sizing a turbo for a specific application is similar to sizing a camshaft for an NA engine in that each shapes airflow characteristics that determine the shape of the TQ and HP curves as a function of RPM of the engine. Duplication can be performed. (2) A torque curve that consistently increases at mid-range is an attribute that some people like and others don't. If that's what you want from a turbo engine, you reduce the boost at low speeds or increase the boost at high speeds. It's that simple if the original designer chose that path. I tend to like the increasing torque curve myself. I would like to see BMW and other manufacturers use turbo applications to provide just that. An M3 type car with a high revving TT 6 cylinder or a well done TT small displacement V8 would be a lot of fun. (3) You seem stuck on this idea that HP peaks well before the red line. It seems to me that if the redline is 2000 rpm beyond peak power rpm, then the redline should be drawn at a lower rpm. If the power decreases, you missed your shift. (4) I understand your point. You care more about mid speed and high speed torque than low speed torque. Fuel economy is not a problem for you. You just love hearing and feeling the engine scream at high revs because it's cool. I agree 100%. Quote: Posted by Ateam This shows that you are still quite naive. It is still not possible to reproduce a torque curve of a V8 with a ttv6 or the curve of an I6 with a TTI4. That was my whole point if you read my post. The fact is that the torque curve and power delivery of the I6 was TOTALLY different and very linear, with power peaking at redline. TT engines tend to have power peaks much earlier and then have a dead RPM of 2000 rpm. Like I said, some people like these low end TT engines, which is fine and a totally different problem. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but they certainly aren't similar in anything except on paper. Same with the current m3 V8 or the e60 m5 V10 compared to the new TT v8. Sure, the new V8 makes more power but delivers it in a totally different way and they're nothing alike, other than the fact that they're both in the 5 hp range..
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| scopare (135hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell I think it's funny that people hate the i6's loss in performance. Are we still talking about a 240 hp 6-cylinder in a 4,000 pound car? Are you saying you'll miss the sound and growl of that earth-spinning 6-string with its massive 240 hp at 6,000 rpm? Skip the new 528i if that's the case. You can probably get a Camry which will give you a nice 240 hp 6 cylinder. Lol
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| newport3 (803hp) | Let's see if this new i4 turbo 528 will repeat the flop of the 5 GT....
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| natalie23 (299hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Ateam I understand the technology, efficiency and equal performance with fewer cylinders, but is anyone else just sad that the NA inline 6 is gone? I really think BMW underestimated how much of the incredible SOUND of their I6 engine was actually responsible for much of the enjoyment of driving the car for the real driver. I grew up loving and wanting a 6 in a row. I loved the mechanical sound. I will never forget my first I6 in n52 form. 255 hp, 7,000 rpm and the sweetest engine sound. To think that this will never be heard again is a bit sad. In retrospect, I should have kept this car. My mother had an E60 525i (with a 3.0L engine and 215 hp). That amazing sound you're talking about just didn't exist. This car was completely dead, there was barely any engine noise. Having driven a 2011 528i, my impression was similar. Virtually no sound, pleasant or otherwise, until you're within 1,000 rpm of redline, at which point it sounds pretty good, but how often do you drive like that? Older BMWs (those designed before the turn of the century) sounded good. However, BMW has repositioned itself as a pure luxury brand, as opposed to the ultimate driving machine. Real luxury cars are supposed to be quiet, so it seems BMW is intentionally killing the amazing sound..
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| 26031993 (261hp) | There are some very sensible articles here evaluating the merits and demerits of this engine for its application in the 528i in the United States. I put it in this context because when you consider the global application of this engine and the market preferences in countries outside of the United States, it makes business sense to do so. We purists will resist the tide of change to smaller capacity forced induction cars, but the vast majority of buyers don't care how many cylinders they have, and in time we too will accept it and when we need something newer, we will. find one that delivers the linear feel and sound we admire so much on the NA setup. This engine will be used in several models around the world badged '16i to '28i - in the 1 Series, the upcoming 3 Series, 5 Series, X3, Z4, etc. They will remove several blocks in the process and replace them with a motor tuned for different outputs. Substantial savings. This annoys me because I see this as a different form of badge engineering, but that's how everyone does it. It seems like they are putting pressure on us quickly, but I ask you what premium you and the majority of buyers would be willing to pay for old technology because it sounds better, feels better and is less efficient, so that the The company will be penalized in the long term and prices will increase. The rest of the world is not opposed to 4-cylinder engines. The 20d is perhaps the biggest seller of any model in the world... That said, I think this engine in the 528i would be nice, if it was also a compelling saving over the 2011 model, because the reality is that this engine is used for the purpose of reducing costs, but it is not cheaper. I wouldn't hesitate to bypass this one for a 535i, if you lease or take out a loan the difference in monthly payment is hardly worth mentioning. I applaud Audi for pricing the A6 2.0T, it's pretty aggressive, they deserve to do well. In a different application, I think this engine is a worthy replacement for the I-6 without cost reduction, as in the Z4. The reviews I've read of this model are very positive, mentioning a spiciness that's fun to hear and work with. I haven't tested this engine yet, when I do, it will be the Z4! So there you have it, my 2 cents. By the way, my BMW experience was that my parents owned 2002tii and a few E12 4 cylinders in the 70s as well as an E34 525i (which did 500,000 km) in South Africa and more recently my Z4 2.5i, 545i and I recently purchased 08 M5. You could say I'm an NA fanboy I guess, but a turbo BMW will probably be in my future and I'm okay with that, but maybe I'll stick with the S.85 ,-)
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| space01 (433hp) | Quote: Originally posted by WULFFZA There are some very sensible articles here evaluating the merits and demerits of this engine for its application in the 528i in the United States. I put it in this context because when you consider the global application of this engine and the market preferences in countries outside of the United States, it makes business sense to do so. We purists will resist the tide of change to smaller capacity forced induction cars, but the vast majority of buyers don't care how many cylinders they have, and in time we too will accept it and when we need something newer, we will. find one that delivers the linear feel and sound we admire so much on the NA setup. This engine will be used in several models around the world badged '16i to '28i - in the 1 Series, the upcoming 3 Series, 5 Series, X3, Z4, etc. They will remove several blocks in the process and replace them with a motor tuned for different outputs. Substantial savings. This annoys me because I see this as a different form of badge engineering, but that's how everyone does it. It seems like they are putting pressure on us quickly, but I ask you what premium you and the majority of buyers would be willing to pay for old technology because it sounds better, feels better and is less efficient, so that the The company will be penalized in the long term and prices will increase. The rest of the world is not opposed to 4-cylinder engines. The 20d is perhaps the biggest seller of any model in the world... That said, I think this engine in the 528i would be nice, if it was also a compelling saving over the 2011 model, because the reality is that this engine is used for the purpose of reducing costs, but it is not cheaper. I wouldn't hesitate to bypass this one for a 535i, if you lease or take out a loan the difference in monthly payment is hardly worth mentioning. I applaud Audi for pricing the A6 2.0T, it's pretty aggressive, they deserve to do well. In a different application, I think this engine is a worthy replacement for the I-6 without cost reduction, as in the Z4. The reviews I've read of this model are very positive, mentioning a spiciness that's fun to hear and work with. I haven't tested this engine yet, when I do, it will be the Z4! So there you have it, my 2 cents. By the way, my BMW experience was that my parents owned 2002tii and a few E12 4 cylinders in the 70s as well as an E34 525i (which did 500,000 km) in South Africa and more recently my Z4 2.5i, 545i and I recently purchased 08 M5. You could say I'm an NA fanboy I guess, but a turbo BMW will probably be in my future and I'm okay with that, but maybe I'll keep the S85,-) Good article!
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| michelle (506hp) | Good article? Not so much. The rest of the world has the choice of the NA I6 in addition to the turbo 4. In the US, the 4 is shoved down our throats. Next up: V6 engines and front-wheel drive.
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| wyatt123 (286hp) | Quote: Originally posted by WULFFZA This engine will be used in several models around the world badged from '16i to '28i... Good article. Small nitpick: this engine (the N20) is used in models ranging from *20i to *28i. The *16i and *18i actually use a version of the N18B16, the engine used by Mini brand vehicles, reconfigured for longitudinal applications..
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| smoove1 (312hp) | Quote: Originally posted by mkoesel Good post. Small nitpick: this engine (the N20) is used in models ranging from *20i to *28i. The *16i and *18i actually use a version of the N18B16, the engine used by Mini brand vehicles, reconfigured for longitudinal applications. I am corrected!
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| mustang86 (796hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell With the new i4 5series, I averaged 37 mpg on a 125-mile city trip (20 km) but mostly on the highway at speeds between 70 mph and 125 km/h. Quote: Originally posted by rmani 34 mpg on the highway not too shabby Quote: Originally posted by elias The 2011 528i NA I6 is 32 mpg on the highway, not much different from the 4cy! i4 is much better than the numbers shown. I have made many trips in both.
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| baobao (381hp) | Quote: Originally posted by BMW_ACURA Will you pay $55,000 for a 4 cylinder car? even if he has a good couple? Yeah, I can't get excited about paying a lot of money for a 4 cylinder car. I would rather buy a 4 cylinder Honda, then at least I would still feel like I was getting value for money.
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| chopsinblack (504hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell I don't see anywhere where I state anything about status. This is simply the low-level engine package of the 5 Series that is discussed here. If you take this as me saying that someone who buys this is inferior, then it can only be a complex that you have given yourself. The fact is that the 528i is the economical 5 series and now has a more economical engine. The N52 is hardly "economical" if you are referring to gas consumption compared to the N55, if you are referring to the purchase price, then how is this not a matter of "status"? If that weren't the case, why wouldn't we want to pay a lower price? Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell Honestly, I'm having trouble following your post, so I'm sorry if I respond in a way that suggests something other than what you meant. It doesn't matter, if I had written everything down, I wouldn't need to post. Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell For me the NA i6 was a weak engine in the 528. It has low horsepower for a 4000 lb car, it has low tq for a big heavy car and if I was looking for an engine with slightly better performance, I wouldn't buy 528i because of the i6 and i4. I would rather consider a 535 or 550 as they have more power, the 535 really isn't that much more expensive as it has some standard options that I would put in the 528 anyway. Torque vs turbo lag... it's your choice. Power versus weight, this one is purely subjective... I think it's ok. Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell I think if I had a choice between two engines that I think are equally underpowered for a car, I would go with the one that gives me the best economy. Does this make sense? NO! I would choose the one that runs at 7 revolutions, constant HP curve, great sound, natural balance, instant response.. Of course I give up, better mileage, much greater low-end torque, minor weight gain (30kg?).. .and that's about it "Fun"/"feel" is subjective...I prefer instant response and increasing power with a wide reach, some may prefer a little wait followed by a hammer (as evidenced by this). Sado/Masochisim) Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell The other thing is that if you drive the 528i i4 properly, you will almost never feel the lag. I said this because I see this becoming a problem for people who want to stand on it at 2500 rpm and pass someone. Downshift a few gears to get the revs to 5,000 and put your foot in it and you'll eliminate lag in almost every car that people complain about turbo lag. Here is an “exchange” equivalent to the N52 for the N20. Would you trade the N55 for an "Nxx" which was a 4.5L NA V8 that revved 8000rpm, 320hp, 350NM and only weighed 30kg more, for the same price, also called 535i? Because it's the same "trade" you make when you go from a 3.0l NA I6 to a 2.0l T i4... (displacement, cylinders, revs, power, torque, weight , price, all adjusted proportionally), I think it's obvious. Don't let marketing obscure the facts.
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| qmanisi (92hp) | Quote: Posted by grimlock Quote: Posted by Mitchell I don't see anywhere that I state anything about status. This is simply the low-level engine package of the 5 Series that is discussed here. If you take this as me saying that someone who buys this is inferior, then it can only be a complex that you have given yourself. The fact is that the 528i is the economical 5 series and now has a more economical engine. The N52 is hardly "economical" if you are referring to gas consumption compared to the N55, if you are referring to the purchase price, then how is this not a matter of "status"? If that weren't the case, why wouldn't we want to pay a lower price? Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell Honestly, I'm having trouble following your post, so I'm sorry if I respond in a way that suggests something other than what you meant. It doesn't matter, if I had written everything down, I wouldn't need to post. Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell For me the NA i6 was a weak engine in the 528. It has low horsepower for a 4000 lb car, it has low tq for a big heavy car and if I was looking for an engine with slightly better performance, I wouldn't buy 528i because of the i6 and i4. I would rather consider a 535 or 550 as they have more power, the 535 really isn't that much more expensive as it has some standard options that I would put in the 528 anyway. Torque vs turbo lag... it's your choice. Power versus weight, this one is purely subjective... I think it's ok. Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell I think if I had a choice between two engines that I think are equally underpowered for a car, I would go with the one that gives me the best economy. Does this make sense? NO! I would choose the one that runs at 7 revolutions, constant HP curve, great sound, natural balance, instant response.. Of course I give up, better mileage, much greater low-end torque, minor weight gain (30kg?).. .and that's about it "Fun"/"feel" is subjective...I prefer instant response and increasing power with a wide reach, some may prefer a little wait followed by a hammer (as evidenced by this). Sado/Masochisim) Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell The other thing is that if you drive the 528i i4 properly, you will almost never feel the lag. I said this because I see this becoming a problem for people who want to stand on it at 2500 rpm and pass someone. Downshift a few gears to get the revs to 5,000 and put your foot in it and you'll eliminate lag in almost every car that people complain about turbo lag. Here is an “exchange” equivalent to the N52 for the N20. Would you trade the N55 for an "Nxx" which was a 4.5L NA V8 that revved 8000rpm, 320hp, 350NM and only weighed 30kg more, for the same price, also called 535i? Because it's the same "trade" you make when you go from a 3.0l NA I6 to a 2.0l T i4... (displacement, cylinders, revs, power, torque, weight , price, all adjusted proportionally) I think it's obvious. Don't let marketing obscure the facts. This is where we differ. 1. 528 is the cheapest 5 series in this discussion. This makes it the low entry in the range. This doesn't make the buyer a little man trying to gain status by purchasing it. Maybe the buyer wants to drive 100 miles each way a day and wants a nice car that can get a few more mpg than a 535 and is willing to sacrifice a little power to do that. I don't know where you think and argue that their status is part of all this. Your argument about something that6?
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| ruben356 (962hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell ................................... I have to ask you if you have, have you already driven the i4? If so, what are your actual impressions compared to your actual impressions of the i6? Here's a real user experience from another guy for the i4 528 http://forums.5series.net/topic/1165...p/page__st__15 Topic #19 Well guys, I'm sorry to report that for me , the 4 banger doesn't work. I read the articles calling for better numbers and faster speeds and I was very hopeful. But when driving in traffic, this thing takes forever to get going and get going. I counted out loud to the salesman and it took over 2 seconds for the power to kick in. And frankly, you can run through the numbers once you're behind the wheel - it's quite a seat of the pants . It was so disappointing that I finished the test drive in 10 minutes. There is no way I would buy a 5er with this engine, let alone have it be a brand new one with no history. IMO, the 2011 IL6 did a much better job powering the 528... Better to test one yourself before putting down the deposit for the 2012 528
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| dubai123 (628hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell The new i4 turbo is a decent engine. With the new i4 5 Series, I averaged 37 mpg on a 125-mile city (20 km) drive but mostly on the highway at speeds between 70 mph and 75 mph. ..... I will say that I'm sad that there is very visible turbo lag with the i4. And I think you'll see a lot of complaints here about that. Quote: Posted by Mitchell The other thing is that if you drive the 528i i4 properly, you will almost never feel the lag. I said this because I see this becoming a problem for people who want to stand on it at 2500 rpm and pass someone. Downshift a few gears to get the revs to 5,000 and put your foot in it and you'll eliminate lag in almost every car that people complain about turbo lag. Quote: Originally posted by mit Here is another guy's real user experience for the i4 528 Topic #19 I counted out loud to the seller and it took over 2 seconds for power to come in Thu. Better test one yourself before putting down the deposit for the 2012 528s, the complaints will definitely pour in I'm sure. As I said in one of my articles above, on your next test drive, change gears before you put your foot in it, it really helps. The automatic transmission really feels bad too, because it feels so sloppy on its own. Buy the 528i with i4 if you want economy and a nice cruiser. Buy 535, 550 or m5 for something with a little more rider feel.
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| 122100 (644hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell This is where we differ 1. 528 is the cheapest 5 series in this discussion. This makes it the low entry in the range. This doesn't make the buyer a little man trying to gain status by purchasing it. Maybe the buyer wants to drive 100 miles each way a day and wants a nice car that can get a few more mpg than a 535 and is willing to sacrifice a little power to do that. I don't know where you think and argue that their status is part of all this. Your argument about something that doesn't exist makes it difficult for me to read anything else you say that has much value to your reasoning. So 528<.535<.550? That's what the numbers say, but if you follow the designation entirely, you're missing a lot. The 528 is a NA 3.0, the 535 is a 3.0 turbo. If turbos were absolutely superior to NAs, wouldn't all cars have them now (well, they do now, but because of eco regulations)? No, because the turbo has DISADVANTAGES. Of course, BMW, or any company selling something, wants us to follow their "point of view" on what they are selling, but if you actually understand the subject matter you can see that there are discrepancies between what what they claim to sell and what it actually is. . Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell 2. I agree that those excited about the i6 may be sad to see it go. But anyone who feels that the i6 was significantly underpowered in the 5 will probably be indifferent. For me, the 528 has always been about cruising in style and comfort while maintaining some sort of efficiency and nothing about putting your foot down and feeling the rush. I don't like my N52 f10 for eco-cruising. I can't wait for the engine to warm up so I can get it up to 7 rpm. That's why the "528" with the 255 hp N52 is so special...you get a racy engine (with the impressive 8-speed automatic) for a non-premium price. Now with the 2.0T 528 the whole range is streamlined...you more or less get what you pay for. Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell 3 I'm not drawn to the marketing because I've driven both and think each is equally unimpressive, which led me to lean towards the one that offers the best mileage. I have to ask, have you ever driven the i4? If so, what are your actual impressions compared to your actual impressions of the i6? You should ride the N52 f10, if you still don't like it...but that's what I like. I haven't driven the new N20, who knows? I might be totally impressed. But this is what he is faced with, in the N52.
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| 21436587 (857hp) | Quote: Posted by grimlock You should drive the N52 F10, if you still don't like it.. Race it?? What against a VW Polo? I have a really hard time reading your writing. I'm sure you must understand some point because it just doesn't apply to all the languages I can only guess we go through..
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| MrFukengruven (24hp) | (1) To say that it is not possible to reproduce the torque curve of an NA motor with a reasonably smaller displacement forced induction motor is false. If you don't care how, skip to (2)! If you want a maximum horsepower engine, put a turbo that's way too big on your engine and you'll feel the sensation of increasing torque as high as your engine revs before the connecting rod bolts break. However, you've just sacrificed low-end torque and handling on the road, where 99.99% of these cars drive. One of the first things a builder does when designing a base engine is to determine the torque curve they want the engine to produce. Then they design the engine around that goal. The goal of their turbo engines is to maximize fuel efficiency at part throttle while providing more area under the torque curve, effectively increasing vehicle performance. Sizing a turbo for a specific application is similar to sizing a camshaft for an NA engine in that each shapes airflow characteristics that determine the shape of the TQ and HP curves as a function of RPM of the engine. Duplication can be performed. (2) A torque curve that consistently increases at mid-range is an attribute that some people like and others don't. If that's what you want from a turbo engine, you reduce the boost at low speeds or increase the boost at high speeds. It's that simple if the original designer chose that path. I tend to like the increasing torque curve myself. I would like to see BMW and other manufacturers use turbo applications to provide just that. An M3 type car with a high revving TT 6 cylinder or a well done TT small displacement V8 would be a lot of fun. (3) You seem stuck on this idea that HP peaks well before the red line. It seems to me that if the redline is 2000 rpm beyond peak power rpm, then the redline should be drawn at a lower rpm. If the power decreases, you missed your shift. (4) I understand your point. You care more about mid-speed and high-speed torque than low-speed torque. Fuel economy is not a problem for you. You just love hearing and feeling the engine scream at high revs because it's cool. I agree 100%. Quote: Posted by Ateam This shows that you are still quite naive. It is still not possible to reproduce a torque curve of a V8 with a ttv6 or the curve of an I6 with a TTI4. That was my whole point if you read my post. The fact is that the torque curve and power delivery of the I6 was TOTALLY different and very linear, with power peaking at redline. TT engines tend to have power peaks much earlier and then have a dead RPM of 2000 rpm. Like I said, some people like these low end TT engines, which is fine and a totally different problem. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but they certainly aren't similar in anything except on paper. Same with the current m3 V8 or the e60 m5 V10 compared to the new TT v8. Sure, the new V8 makes more power but delivers it in a totally different way and they're nothing alike, other than the fact that they're both in the 5 hp range..
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| dolf (410hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Mitchell I think it's funny that people hate the i6's loss in performance. Are we still talking about a 240 hp 6-cylinder in a 4,000 pound car? Are you saying you'll miss the sound and growl of that earth-spinning 6-string with its massive 240 hp at 6,000 rpm? Skip the new 528i if that's the case. You can probably get a Camry which will give you a nice 240 hp 6 cylinder. Lol
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| shorty88 (320hp) | Let's see if this new i4 turbo 528 will repeat the flop of the 5 GT....
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| irving (268hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Ateam I understand the technology, efficiency and equal performance with fewer cylinders, but is anyone else just sad that the NA inline 6 is gone? I really think BMW underestimated how much of the incredible SOUND of their I6 engine was actually responsible for much of the enjoyment of driving the car for the real driver. I grew up loving and wanting a 6 in a row. I loved the mechanical sound. I will never forget my first I6 in n52 form. 255 hp, 7,000 rpm and the sweetest engine sound. To think that this will never be heard again is a bit sad. In retrospect, I should have kept this car. My mother had an E60 525i (with a 3.0L engine and 215 hp). That amazing sound you're talking about just didn't exist. This car was completely dead, there was barely any engine noise. Having driven a 2011 528i, my impression was similar. Virtually no sound, pleasant or otherwise, until you're within 1,000 rpm of redline, at which point it sounds pretty good, but how often do you drive like that? Older BMWs (those designed before the turn of the century) sounded good. However, BMW has repositioned itself as a pure luxury brand, as opposed to the ultimate driving machine. Real luxury cars are supposed to be quiet, so it seems BMW is intentionally killing the amazing sound..
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| loveyou10 (733hp) | There are some very sensible articles here evaluating the merits and demerits of this engine for its application in the 528i in the United States. I put it in this context because when you consider the global application of this engine and the market preferences in countries outside of the United States, it makes business sense to do so. We purists will resist the tide of change to smaller capacity forced induction cars, but the vast majority of buyers don't care how many cylinders they have, and in time we too will accept it and when we need something newer, we will. find one that delivers the linear feel and sound we admire so much on the NA setup. This engine will be used in several models around the world badged '16i to '28i - in the 1 Series, the upcoming 3 Series, 5 Series, X3, Z4, etc. They will remove several blocks in the process and replace them with a motor tuned for different outputs. Substantial savings. This annoys me because I see this as a different form of badge engineering, but that's how everyone does it. It seems like they are putting pressure on us quickly, but I ask you what premium you and the majority of buyers would be willing to pay for old technology because it sounds better, feels better and is less efficient, so that the The company will be penalized in the long term and prices will increase. The rest of the world is not opposed to 4-cylinder engines. The 20d is perhaps the biggest seller of any model in the world... That said, I think this engine in the 528i would be nice, if it was also a compelling saving over the 2011 model, because the reality is that this engine is used for the purpose of reducing costs, but it is not cheaper. I wouldn't hesitate to bypass this one for a 535i, if you lease or take out a loan the difference in monthly payment is hardly worth mentioning. I applaud Audi for pricing the A6 2.0T, it's pretty aggressive, they deserve to do well. In a different application, I think this engine is a worthy replacement for the I-6 without cost reduction, as in the Z4. The reviews I've read of this model are very positive, mentioning a spiciness that's fun to hear and work with. I haven't tested this engine yet, when I do, it will be the Z4! So there you have it, my 2 cents. By the way, my BMW experience was that my parents owned 2002tii and a few E12 4 cylinders in the 70s as well as an E34 525i (which did 500,000 km) in South Africa and more recently my Z4 2.5i, 545i and I recently purchased 08 M5. You could say I'm an NA fanboy I guess, but a turbo BMW will probably be in my future and I'm okay with that, but maybe I'll stick with the S.85 ,-)
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| 26111978 (850hp) | Quote: Originally posted by WULFFZA There are some very sensible articles here evaluating the merits and demerits of this engine for its application in the 528i in the United States. I put it in this context because when you consider the global application of this engine and the market preferences in countries outside of the United States, it makes business sense to do so. We purists will resist the tide of change to smaller capacity forced induction cars, but the vast majority of buyers don't care how many cylinders they have, and in time we too will accept it and when we need something newer, we will. find one that delivers the linear feel and sound we admire so much on the NA setup. This engine will be used in several models around the world badged '16i to '28i - in the 1 Series, the upcoming 3 Series, 5 Series, X3, Z4, etc. They will remove several blocks in the process and replace them with a motor tuned for different outputs. Substantial savings. This annoys me because I see this as a different form of badge engineering, but that's how everyone does it. It seems like they are putting pressure on us quickly, but I ask you what premium you and the majority of buyers would be willing to pay for old technology because it sounds better, feels better and is less efficient, so that the The company will be penalized in the long term and prices will increase. The rest of the world is not opposed to 4-cylinder engines. The 20d is perhaps the biggest seller of any model in the world... That said, I think this engine in the 528i would be nice, if it was also a compelling saving over the 2011 model, because the reality is that this engine is used for the purpose of reducing costs, but it is not cheaper. I wouldn't hesitate to bypass this one for a 535i, if you lease or take out a loan the difference in monthly payment is hardly worth mentioning. I applaud Audi for pricing the A6 2.0T, it's pretty aggressive, they deserve to do well. In a different application, I think this engine is a worthy replacement for the I-6 without cost reduction, as in the Z4. The reviews I've read of this model are very positive, mentioning a spiciness that's fun to hear and work with. I haven't tested this engine yet, when I do, it will be the Z4! So there you have it, my 2 cents. By the way, my BMW experience was that my parents owned 2002tii and a few E12 4 cylinders in the 70s as well as an E34 525i (which did 500,000 km) in South Africa and more recently my Z4 2.5i, 545i and I recently purchased 08 M5. You could say I'm an NA fanboy I guess, but a turbo BMW will probably be in my future and I'm okay with that, but maybe I'll keep the S85,-) Good article!
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| fade2black (85hp) | Good article? Not so much. The rest of the world has the choice of the NA I6 in addition to the turbo 4. In the US, the 4 is shoved down our throats. Next up: V6 engines and front-wheel drive.
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| Inuyasha1 (66hp) | Quote: Originally posted by WULFFZA This engine will be used in several models around the world badged from '16i to '28i... Good article. Small nitpick: this engine (the N20) is used in models ranging from *20i to *28i. The *16i and *18i actually use a version of the N18B16, the engine used by Mini brand vehicles, reconfigured for longitudinal applications..
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| 030197 (510hp) | Quote: Posted by mkoesel Good post. Small nitpick: this engine (the N20) is used in models ranging from *20i to *28i. The *16i and *18i actually use a version of the N18B16, the engine used by Mini brand vehicles, reconfigured for longitudinal applications. I am corrected!
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| delia (136hp) | I have a 2011 550 and I also have a Valentine radar detector. The radar detector continues to beep backwards! Could it be from picking something up in the car?? I tried 2 radars and the same thing happens!!! An idea???
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| fireball12 (287hp) | Search: http://f10.5post.com/forums/search.p...rchid=18994730
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| deerhunt1 (599hp) | Quote: Originally posted by taylorpetie Search: http://f10.5post.com/forums/search.p...rchid=18994730 Linky no worky
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| 800020 (278hp) | Lane departure warning radar.
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| aah78 (14hp) | The link does not work.
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| Basketball (864hp) | Mine does the same thing. I spoke with Valentine customer service and stated that this is a common malady in the latest BMW models with several radar based technologies (lane departure warning being a). My Ka and K bands sporadically emit multiple warnings (seen 9 blasts simultaneously)..... I have found that I now only use it when I shift to the sport transmission or am on an extended highway trip , because I'm tired. multiple fake threats and pressing the damn mute button. This happens whether lane departure is activated or deactivated! My recently left 2008 E60 550i had no lane departure option, the V1 worked perfectly. There must be a fix for this, Valentine indicated that my software is up to date,
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| bin (942hp) | Quote: Posted by j3o3t3 Mine does the same thing. I spoke with Valentine customer service and stated that this is a common malady in the latest BMW models with several radar based technologies (lane departure warning being a). My Ka and K bands sporadically emit multiple warnings (seen 9 blasts simultaneously)..... I have found that I now only use it when I shift to the sport transmission or am on an extended highway trip , because I'm tired. multiple fake threats and pressing the damn mute button. This happens whether lane departure is activated or deactivated! My recently left 2008 E60 550i had no lane departure option, the V1 worked perfectly. There must be a fix for this, Valentine said my software is up to date, thanks, I thought I was going crazy!!!! lol I thought it would be something with Lane leaving, they should have a solution to this problem if we are all complaining about it!!! I have 3 Valentine radars. The one on my Porsche 996tt works very well !!!!
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| daffy (940hp) | I will have photos of the BMW 550 uploaded to Photobucket soon. http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/JOERODRIGUEZ1/
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| 198225 (865hp) | Quote: Posted by fst996tt Thanks, I thought I was going crazy!!!! lol I thought it would be something with Lane leaving, they should have a solution to this problem if we are all complaining about it!!! I have 3 Valentine radars. The one on my Porsche 996tt works very well!!!! In my conversations with Valentine last winter, it seemed unlikely that a solution would be found since they use a common radar band. They indicated that Audi was the worst in this regard. As I understand it, the radar is still on even if you turn the feature off. I think someone posted that changing the jumpers on V1 to disable POP improved it. I didn't order any of the radar based options for this reason. The proper functioning of V1 is essential for me.
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| ROBERTO (408hp) | I have a 2011 550 and I also have a Valentine radar detector. The radar detector continues to beep backwards! Could it be from picking something up in the car?? I tried 2 radars and the same thing happens!!! An idea???
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| mickey12 (979hp) | Search: http://f10.5post.com/forums/search.p...rchid=18994730
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| 191286 (225hp) | Quote: Originally posted by taylorpetie Search: http://f10.5post.com/forums/search.p...rchid=18994730 Linky no worky
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| 122345 (275hp) | Lane departure warning radar.
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| 171294 (8hp) | The link does not work.
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| 110885 (117hp) | Mine does the same thing. I spoke with Valentine customer service and stated that this is a common malady in the latest BMW models with several radar based technologies (lane departure warning being a). My Ka and K bands sporadically emit multiple warnings (seen 9 blasts simultaneously)..... I have found that I now only use it when I shift to the sport transmission or am on an extended highway trip , because I'm tired. multiple fake threats and pressing the damn mute button. This happens whether lane departure is activated or deactivated! My recently left 2008 E60 550i had no lane departure option, the V1 worked perfectly. There must be a fix for this, Valentine indicated that my software is up to date,
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| Maximum25 (145hp) | Quote: Posted by j3o3t3 Mine does the same thing. I spoke with Valentine customer service and stated that this is a common malady in the latest BMW models with several radar based technologies (lane departure warning being a). My Ka and K bands sporadically emit multiple warnings (seen 9 blasts simultaneously)..... I have found that I now only use it when I shift to the sport transmission or am on an extended highway trip , because I'm tired. multiple fake threats and pressing the damn mute button. This happens whether lane departure is activated or deactivated! My recently left 2008 E60 550i had no lane departure option, the V1 worked perfectly. There must be a fix for this, Valentine said my software is up to date, thanks, I thought I was going crazy!!!! lol I thought it would be something with Lane leaving, they should have a solution to this problem if we are all complaining about it!!! I have 3 Valentine radars. The one on my Porsche 996tt works very well !!!!
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| STiLLsLow (73hp) | I will have photos of the BMW 550 uploaded to Photobucket soon. http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/JOERODRIGUEZ1/
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| jabari (328hp) | Quote: Posted by fst996tt Thanks, I thought I was going crazy!!!! lol I thought it would be something with Lane leaving, they should have a solution to this problem if we are all complaining about it!!! I have 3 Valentine radars. The one on my Porsche 996tt works very well!!!! In my conversations with Valentine last winter, it seemed unlikely that a solution would be found since they use a common radar band. They indicated that Audi was the worst in this regard. As I understand it, the radar is still on even if you turn the feature off. I think someone posted that changing the jumpers on V1 to disable POP improved it. I didn't order any of the radar based options for this reason. The proper functioning of V1 is essential for me.
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| iluvu22 (959hp) | After downshifting to 2nd gear and stopping at the red light, I accelerated with the green light without realizing that the F10 was still in 2nd. As I accelerated and heard the high revs, my car simultaneously went into reduced power mode or failsafe mode, and the warning message appeared indicating a powertrain malfunction. At this point my F10 seemed poorly timed and hesitated a lot. I drove slowly in this state for about a minute, then on its own everything returned to normal full power.!
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| 14081988 (215hp) | I thought the rev limiter was supposed to kick in well before any automatic fault on a low power setting and associated warning. It might be worth calling your dealer.
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| lola23 (72hp) | Take it in for repair and the dealer can read the computer and see what the problem is..
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| 157359 (436hp) | Quote: Originally posted by ibimmer346 Take it in for repair and the dealer can read the computer and see what the problem is. Absolutely no need to service a 2011 car. Besides the fact that it would be unplanned, unnecessary and at the customer's request, the OP would be charged for it. If there is a fault and as the rev limiter doesn't seem to have tripped I suspect there might be - this is a simple warranty inquiry..
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| dexter21 (477hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Jon D Absolutely no need to take a 2011 car in for service. Besides the fact that this would be unplanned, unnecessary and at the client's request, the OP would be charged for this. If there is a fault and as the rev limiter doesn't seem to have tripped I suspect there might be - this is a simple warranty inquiry. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant by service. This is not a normal scheduled maintenance service, but repair it under warranty..
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| ranger7 (575hp) | After downshifting to 2nd gear and stopping at the red light, I accelerated with the green light without realizing that the F10 was still in 2nd. As I accelerated and heard the high revs, my car simultaneously went into reduced power mode or failsafe mode, and the warning message appeared indicating a powertrain malfunction. At this point my F10 seemed poorly timed and hesitated a lot. I drove slowly in this state for about a minute, then on its own everything returned to normal full power.!
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| mama88 (785hp) | I thought the rev limiter was supposed to kick in well before any automatic fault on a low power setting and associated warning. It might be worth calling your dealer.
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| castelo (969hp) | Take it in for repair and the dealer can read the computer and see what the problem is..
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| nascimento (511hp) | Quote: Originally posted by ibimmer346 Take it in for repair and the dealer can read the computer and see what the problem is. Absolutely no need to service a 2011 car. Besides the fact that it would be unplanned, unnecessary and at the customer's request, the OP would be charged for it. If there is a fault and as the rev limiter doesn't seem to have tripped I suspect there might be - this is a simple warranty inquiry..
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| mecanica (249hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Jon D Absolutely no need to take a 2011 car in for service. Besides the fact that this would be unplanned, unnecessary and at the client's request, the OP would be charged for this. If there is a fault and as the rev limiter doesn't seem to have tripped I suspect there might be - this is a simple warranty inquiry. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant by service. This is not a normal scheduled maintenance service, but repair it under warranty..
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| livelife (880hp) | I'm wondering which phone is best to use in my car: I have the pro-nav system (6NR). Thoughts??? Advantages and disadvantages?
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| katy (908hp) | What bold model? 9900? I saw that on the new iPhone they implemented the new generation Bluebooth, but there is not much information about specific profiles..
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| radcliffe (674hp) | Bluetooth implementation is generally better on Blackberries and the initial concept for BMW Office was centered around BB. BMW has always seemed conflicted. The smartphone integration was intended for the iPhone (like most current media) while the Office concept was purely BB. BMW adheres to Bluetooth standards better than most other automakers (and certainly better than Apple), so for now it's a breeze..
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| ghjcnb (939hp) | I'm wondering which phone is best to use in my car: I have the pro-nav system (6NR). Thoughts??? Advantages and disadvantages?
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| 1113 (180hp) | What bold model? 9900? I saw that on the new iPhone they implemented the new generation Bluebooth, but there is not much information about specific profiles..
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| modesto1 (800hp) | Bluetooth implementation is generally better on Blackberries and the initial concept for BMW Office was focused on BB. BMW has always seemed conflicted. The smartphone integration was intended for the iPhone (like most current media) while the Office concept was purely BB. BMW adheres to Bluetooth standards better than most other automakers (and certainly better than Apple), so for now it's a breeze..
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| nathan1234 (305hp) | Hi, just wanted to introduce myself from the UK...I've been hiding out here for a few months. My new 520d SE should arrive next week. These are unfortunately the base specs as this will be a company car and they don't allow us to add any options. I had the choice between black or titanium silver. I opted for Titanium Silver with a black on black interior. I just hope it's a 2012 model. I have no idea when it was built or when the order was actually placed....any idea of my chances?
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| 120873 (998hp) | No idea what model year it is, but welcome and I'm sure you'll love the car!
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| leslie123 (269hp) | Hello... I'm very new here myself, but welcome and congratulations on the car. I'm picking up my 520d SE in a few days (Thursday). The 2012 cars appear to be produced from September 5. As yours arrives next week (is this an in-country arrival, or the dealer do you know?), it seems most likely that yours will have been manufactured after that date and will be the new spec... Changes for 2012 are a Pro Drive Eco Switch to optimize economy (I don't really know much about what it does in practice - I'll post that after Thursday!), stop/start the engine on automatic cars (the cars manuals already had it) and a Real system based on GSM. Temporal road information service for navigation (perhaps only Pro Navette?). Can't wait to see the photos when yours arrives!
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| charlie6 (262hp) | To welcome
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| 808_F10 (643hp) | Hello, The date is delivery to my house, so it should be in the country by now. It is rented through Alphabet. Fingers crossed for the 2012..they have lower CO2 output and I like the idea of being able to fine tune the throttle response :-) I'll post pics once it arrives, I'm currently in a touring e90 on loan, so I will post some comparisons etc. Thanks Steve
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| 15091994 (235hp) | You reminded me to call the dealership today and confirm for sure that mine is a 2012 model, now that the valet crew is working on it and they can see the switches. I'm happy to report that it is! I signed up for BMW Connect Drive on the BMW UK website a few days ago but still haven't received a response. Presumably this will affect the operation of the navigation RTTI, Internet and other BMW assistance features (including remote control/viewing of many of the car's features on an iPhone) until word of pass be sent? Can anyone tell how long this normally takes please?
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| bokbok (314hp) | Don't worry about poverty, it's fabulous!
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| 4beatles (340hp) | Above I posted photos of my new MY2012 520d in the photos section...
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| 231278 (800hp) | I just received my delivery date... This Friday. I'm looking forward to it. It's a big change from previous cars, though. Will be a little slow but nice: Championship Civic Type-R White Astra VXR Civic Type-R First Edition BMW 330ci Clubsport Civic Type-R
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| lilboosie1 (147hp) | Not long now then! I think you'll find it almost pointless comparing the new 520d with your previous cars, because the ride, handling and general feeling of relative luxury make it so different. What it lacks in liveliness it more than makes up for (in my humble opinion) with the feeling of effortless cruising, space, comfort and elegance. (By the way, did I say I really like mine!?) Have you confirmed the 2012 version now? With your delivery date, it seems almost certain...
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| sis (960hp) | No confirmation on construction date. It was ordered by my company so I have no contact details to ask. Fingers crossed for 2012 as it's a significant difference
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| BigDeep1 (550hp) | He arrives tomorrow!!
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| Rochdale Pioneers (297hp) | Great! Another sleep... I'm really happy with mine: he's a week old today. No issues with steering pull, jerky transmission, or any of the things that have been discussed at length here and had me worried about prior to pickup. Take advantage of the delivery day!
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| 03031989 (886hp) | Thank you very much my friend. I'll post pics soon so I can bore you all
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| midnight13 (399hp) | it's a model 2012!!
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| chelsea18 (605hp) | Sport mode is fun, the smart Eco Drive album art looks cool, and the car is amazing. A proper review coming in a week or two
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| 250496 (902hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Gringosteve This is a 2012 model!! Excellent! You would have been very unlucky if that wasn't the case, but I bet it's a relief to have it confirmed! Quote: Originally posted by Gringosteve The sport mode is fun, the clever Eco Drive album art looks cool, and the car is amazing. A proper examination will be carried out in a week or two. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts...a week later and I'm really, really happy.!
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| homosexual (373hp) | Hi, just wanted to introduce myself from the UK...I've been hiding out here for a few months. My new 520d SE should arrive next week. These are unfortunately the base specs as this will be a company car and they don't allow us to add any options. I had the choice between black or titanium silver. I opted for Titanium Silver with a black on black interior. I just hope it's a 2012 model. I have no idea when it was built or when the order was actually placed....any idea of my chances?
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| bmwx5dude (521hp) | No idea what model year it is, but welcome and I'm sure you'll love the car!
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| 250495 (556hp) | Hello... I'm very new here myself, but welcome and congratulations on the car. I'm picking up my 520d SE in a few days (Thursday). The 2012 cars appear to be produced from September 5. As yours arrives next week (is this an in-country arrival, or the dealer do you know?), it seems most likely that yours will have been manufactured after that date and will be the new spec... Changes for 2012 are a Pro Drive Eco Switch to optimize economy (I don't really know much about what it does in practice - I'll post that after Thursday!), engine stop/start on automatic cars (the cars manuals already had it) and a Real system based on GSM. Time-based traffic information service for navigation (maybe only Pro Nav?). Can't wait to see the photos when yours arrives!
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| Tulsadetail (414hp) | To welcome
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| nessa (761hp) | Hello, The date is delivery to my house, so it should be in the country by now. It is rented through Alphabet. Fingers crossed for the 2012..they have lower CO2 output and I like the idea of being able to fine tune the throttle response :-) I'll post pics once it arrives, I'm currently in a touring e90 on loan, so I will post some comparisons etc. Thanks Steve
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| eXRuLeZz (276hp) | You reminded me to call the dealership today and confirm for sure that mine is a 2012 model, now that the valet crew is working on it and they can see the switches. I'm happy to report that it is! I signed up for BMW Connect Drive on the BMW UK website a few days ago but still haven't received a response. Presumably this will affect the operation of the navigation RTTI, Internet and other BMW assistance features (including remote control/viewing of many of the car's features on an iPhone) until word of pass be sent? Can anyone tell how long this normally takes please?
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| marvelous (683hp) | Don't worry about poverty, it's fabulous!
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| starbai (917hp) | Above I posted photos of my new MY2012 520d in the photos section...
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| sirius1 (467hp) | I just received my delivery date... This Friday. I'm looking forward to it. It's a big change from previous cars, though. Will be a bit slow but nice: White Civic Type-R Championship Astra VXR Civic Type-R First Edition BMW 330ci Clubsport Civic Type-R
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| samoan1 (418hp) | Not long now then! I think you'll find it almost pointless comparing the new 520d with your previous cars, because the ride, handling and general feeling of relative luxury make it so different. What it lacks in liveliness it more than makes up for (in my humble opinion) with the feeling of effortless cruising, space, comfort and elegance. (By the way, did I say I really like mine!?) Have you confirmed the 2012 version now? With your delivery date, it seems almost certain...
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| usa777 (127hp) | No confirmation on construction date. It was ordered by my company so I have no contact details to ask. Fingers crossed for 2012 as it's a significant difference
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| pink32 (672hp) | He arrives tomorrow!!
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| jasper (698hp) | Great! Another sleep... I'm really happy with mine: he's a week old today. No issues with steering pull, jerky transmission, or any of the things that have been discussed at length here and had me worried about prior to pickup. Take advantage of the delivery day!
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| Nhan (755hp) | Thank you very much my friend. I'll post pics soon so I can bore you all
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| topogigio (480hp) | it's a model 2012!!
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| pajarito (853hp) | Sport mode is fun, the smart Eco Drive album art looks cool, and the car is amazing. A proper review coming in a week or two
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| bigdog (402hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Gringosteve It's a 2012 model!! Excellent! You would have been very unlucky if that wasn't the case, but I bet it's a relief to have it confirmed! Quote: Originally posted by Gringosteve The sport mode is fun, the smart Eco Drive album art looks cool, and the car is amazing. A proper examination will be carried out in a week or two. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts...a week later and I'm really, really happy.!
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| ar1234 (438hp) | The engineer recommended I swap fuel for a few tanks, this one having run on pure Shell RPM, and as no two fuels burn exactly the same, the ERG thresholds would be slightly "adjusted" by the engine , exchanged with BP last week and still the same. It's really strange on this one, maybe I'm imagining it but I think it's worse when it's raining/very humid outside - but I might just be grasping at straws
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| maurice3 (333hp) | So I picked up the car today. Unsolved problem, as expected, but a lot of data was collected on the car while it was "shaking", so hopefully BMW can see what's going on. The tech who worked on my car said he could experience the same symptoms in two other cars he drove this week, one at a dealership, one at a customer, both 520d Autos - looks like it is a common problem..
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| 09121989 (250hp) | I still wonder if this is some sort of broadcast strategy. HighlandPete
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| RonnieRenaldi (954hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 22andcounting So I picked up the car today. Unsolved problem, as expected, but a lot of data was collected on the car while it was "shaking", so hopefully BMW can see what's going on. The technician who worked on my car said he could experience the same symptoms in two other cars he drove this week, one being a dealer car, the other a customer car, both 520d Auto - looks like this is a common problem. . It must be recent, because mine built on September 10 is perfect. I really don't want service in case they update the software and ruin my car!!!
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| lovely20 (316hp) | Could someone post their PUMA number here? I plan to talk to my dealer about this and it would help a lot if I had the PUMA ready in advance. Thanks in advance!
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| DJWhitebread (942hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Krill Could someone post their PUMA number here? I plan to talk to my dealer about this and it would help a lot if I had the PUMA ready in advance. Thanks in advance! the PUMA number is specific to a car, the dealer must create a PUMA for your car, the more PUMAs, the more urgently BMW will solve the problem.
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| milkiss (293hp) | Quote: Originally posted by HighlandPete I still wonder if this is some sort of shows strategy. HighlandPete I tend to think it's more of a fuel problem than a gearbox problem - just because of how quickly the hesitations come one after the other, I can't believe the gearbox can respond so quickly. This looks to everyone else like a misfire on a 6 or 8 cylinder, more subtle than a misfire would be on a 4, I'm with you highlandpete, I think it's a quirk in the refueling at these speeds and under a certain engine load.
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| jake05 (505hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 22andcounting I tend to think it's more of a fuel problem than a gearbox problem - just because of how quickly the hesitations come in succession, I can't believe that the gearbox can respond so quickly. This looks to everyone else like a misfire on a 6 or 8 cylinder, more subtle than a misfire would be on a 4, I'm with you highlandpete, I think it's a quirk in the refueling at these speeds and under a certain engine load. It makes more sense that this is an engine problem rather than a gearbox problem. This also happens on engines from other manufacturers, and also coupled with manual gearboxes. I think some of the reported gasoline engine gearbox jerks also come from the engine rather than the gearbox. Some have had their adaptations changed or reverted to default values. I'm not too sure what some have actually done, perhaps no more than throttle adaptation and it soon reverts to user influenced input values, hence the problem coming back within a few days. Cars are getting too complex and these issues are bound to arise in some examples, IMO. Finding the source of the problem is a difficult question. At the same time, I had problems with my HVAC system in the E91. Long story short, BMW collected data with a recorder and passed it on to the system designers for feedback. It turned out that it worked normally, but my conditions here in the Highlands were pushing the limits of the design and I continued to have what seemed to be a problem. The design was far too clever for its own good, and as a user I would have to manually override the auto function if I wanted to work around the flaw (read... limitation for rapidly changing humidity levels, in the design ). HighlandPete
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| 198610 (391hp) | So let's eliminate the gearbox, as happens on MTs and ATs. Who here thinks it happens at the engine level, and who thinks it happens at the brake level? I certainly have the impression that it is happening to the engine (it could be the ignition or the fuel), but could it be the brakes, i.e. an ABS/TC fault?? ? Could it even be the “hold” function that’s getting a little crazy??
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| melissa13 (196hp) | Quote: Originally published by 22andcounting, PUMA number is specific to a car, the dealer should create a PUMA for your car, the more PUMAs, the more urgently BMW will solve the problem. Okay, but wouldn't giving technicians an already registered PUMA give them a nudge in the right direction? Just my 2 cents...
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| cigarette (786hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 5er_luvver So let's eliminate the gearbox, as happens on MTs and ATs. Who here thinks it happens at the engine level, and who thinks it happens at the brake level? I certainly have the impression that it is happening to the engine (it could be the ignition or the fuel), but could it be the brakes, i.e. an ABS/TC fault?? ? Could it even be the “hold” function that’s going a little crazy? Are there reasons/evidence to suspect an ABS/TC defect? My experience includes a "troubleshooting" engineering environment, so I would never rule anything out. As has been said, there are many factors that can cause slight hesitation/stumbling at a rev/load. Hopefully the data shows where this is happening, whether it's turbo actuation, swirl control, fueling, EGR, or some sort of overlapping mixture. Or something else, completely different. HighlandPete
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| bama12 (609hp) | Quote: Originally posted by HighlandPete Is there any reason/evidence to suspect an ABS/TC defect? My experience includes a "troubleshooting" engineering environment, so I would never rule anything out. As has been said, there are many factors that can cause slight hesitation/stumbling at a rev/load. Hopefully the data shows where this is happening, whether it's turbo actuation, swirl control, fueling, EGR, or some sort of overlapping mixture. Or something else, completely different. HighlandPete My thoughts along the ABS/TC line were whether the hill hold function (since this mostly happens on inclines) was faulty somewhere, sending false readings to the ABS module and seizing the brakes . As mentioned, I feel like it would be fuel/ignition related, but I too come from an engineering background (including 6 sigma) and learned not to overdo it. assumptions at the beginning. I felt that transsexuals could be excluded as they are unlikely to share any components. But... that said, I may be right, because they may very well share sending units or such. Anyway, that's just my 2p value. I'm looking forward to the outcome of this..
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| Drizz (109hp) | This emerging theory of brakes is actually very interesting. I first described the problem to the technicians: it felt like the rear brakes were being applied and released rapidly while the car seemed to slow down slightly and it felt like the feeling was coming from the rear of the car . I had them look at the rear brakes, as they whine slightly if the auto hold is engaged just before the car stops and the auto hold takes over the car. And just now they groaned as I braked very gently at a downhill T-junction, just before the car stopped. I will pass this theory on to the dealer, thanks guys
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| flicka (792hp) | So the investigation now literally moves to the rear of the car and a potential fault with the dynamic traction control and stability management, it is believed could be a faulty sensor causing the momentary intervention of the DTC and braking of a wheel by mistake. I definitely have a rear brake problem, as the side rear "whines" when I gently brake to a near stop in downhill intersections just before the car stops..
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| raiders8 (859hp) | I understand and am considering possible intervention on the brakes, I hope this will lead to progress. Is the investigation driven by the data collected? HighlandPete
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| current1 (859hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 22andcounting So the investigation is now literally moving to the rear of the car and a potential fault with the dynamic traction control and stability management it is believed could be act of a defective sensor causing the momentary intervention of the DTC and the braking of an error wheel. I definitely have a rear brake problem, as the side rear "whines" when I gently brake to a near stop in downhill intersections just before the car stops. 22, are you saying that BMW is conducting this investigation "back"?
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| puss (998hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 5er_luvver 22, are you saying BMW is doing this "rear" investigation? Yes, I'm taking the car on Thursday
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| osipov (729hp) | My 530d xDrive does this too, but at lower speeds (40/50 mph). My car now has 4,500 km and I'm experiencing it less. Maybe it will disappear after a few more miles.
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| mario22 (885hp) | I can't wait for the result!! Good luck!!
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| 211184 (847hp) | This no longer happens on mine, even on the highway..
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| QWASZX (231hp) | Yesterday I didn't do it once on the way to Slough, 132. Miles, coming home, worst it's ever been, 74 mph on the hills jerk jerk jerk, I counted 21 hesitations consecutive on a hill, much more pronounced than before. The car has now done 4,200,000 miles tomorrow they can keep the thing until they fix it!
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| ts61gogo (898hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 22andcounting Yesterday I didn't make it once on the way to Slough, 132. Miles, coming home, worst it's ever been, 74 mph on the hills jerk jerk jerk , I counted 21 consecutive hesitations on a hill, much more pronounced than before. The car has now done 4,200,000 miles tomorrow, they can keep the thing until they fix it! Sorry to read this 22. Hopefully this gets fixed soon. Mine was also bad this morning. I think I read somewhere that when cruise control uses its active braking function, the brake lights come on (that seems logical)? But I wonder if someone was driving behind you on a hill, and if the problem was with the brakes, if the brake lights would flash?
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