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| simplegirl (479hp) | Quote: Originally written by visualguy. Well, let's just agree to disagree. I drove my 2016 550i with the M Sport suspension on winding roads like Highway 17, Highway 9 and Skyline Dr. drove in NorCal and he behaved very well. I didn't feel any of the body roll you're talking about or any suspension issues. There is no shortage of speeds on public roads. It's a great balance between sport and comfort and it's great not having to mess with the settings. Since I also own a Porsche Cayman GTS, I am very familiar with good handling. I wouldn't bother with DHP or IAS. Use the money for a nice road trip vacation or for the next car... I think you may not have understood what we, or at least I, were trying to say. I agree with you overall, except for your last statement about DHP. With the base suspension you would certainly feel the body swaying in the same car (especially the 550) on the same roads you mention. Not nearly as much with 704 or DHP in Sport/Sport+ mode. Don't forget that DHP also gives you a comfortable/soft ride on rough roads in comfort mode. For some, as discussed in detail in other threads, this is a great option (admittedly, I almost never use it myself). Personally, I would recommend either the basic suspension and would advise any potential buyer to try both if possible. In my opinion, an M sports suspension or a DHP upgrade are money well spent. Cars with basic suspension are great for a large car, those with M-Sport or DHP ride much better - DHP changes the car in ways I didn't think possible. Anyone who has tried it will know what we are talking about.
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| ab12345678 (938hp) | Quote: Originally posted by visualguy Quote: Originally posted by chrisny Sure, if good is what you're looking for, I suppose. Without ARS, it's a big car that drives like a big car. The conversation was about driving dynamics and comparing a smaller, more maneuverable car with a larger one. The current DHP (adaptive drive and ARS) closes that gap, and anyone who thinks the difference is negligible has either never driven one with these upgrades or doesn't care about the handling and body roll. Well, let's just agree to disagree. I drove my 2016 550i with the M Sport suspension on winding roads like Highway 17, Highway 9 and Skyline Dr. drove in NorCal and he behaved very well. I didn't feel any of the body roll you're talking about or any suspension issues. There is no shortage of speeds on public roads. It's a great balance between sport and comfort and it's great not having to mess with the settings. Since I also own a Porsche Cayman GTS, I am very familiar with good handling. I wouldn't bother with DHP or IAS. Use the money for a nice road trip vacation or to get to the next car... Fine. I should have stated that my comments referred to X-Drive cars (which I take for granted since I live in the Northeast). Is your 550 RWD? I believe that XDrive models either don't have the passive M or at least don't have stiffer springs. Then DHP becomes essential for me. I would also like to echo Bbb34's opinion regarding the ability to tone down the ride if necessary. Another thing that might not be a problem in some areas, but given the pothole-riddled roads of the Northeast, it's nice when a luxury sedan actually feels like one, even in sport mode. My 550 absorbs shock and stays stiff in the corners better than my 335xi and better than my wife's X5 (no DHP). I don't know if this is also the case with passive drive, but since adaptive drive first came onto the market years ago, it made sense not only in terms of performance but also comfort. So once again, when looking at these options, you have to consider RWD vs.
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| 1dakota (901hp) | Quote: Originally posted by chrisny Sure, if good is what you're looking for, I suppose. Without ARS, it's a big car that drives like a big car. The conversation was about driving dynamics and comparing a smaller, more maneuverable car with a larger one. The current DHP (adaptive drive and ARS) closes that gap, and anyone who thinks the difference is negligible has either never driven one with these upgrades or doesn't care about the handling and body roll. I switched from an E91 car to the F11 car. For my driving it was important to select the “Adaptive Drive” option so that the car could be as close as possible to the smaller 3 Series. For me, AD is the “star” of all options when it comes to driving dynamics, comparing the 3 Series and 5 Series. The basic suspension will in no way give the 5 Series the driving feel of a smaller car. A passive M Sport suspension is not a complete solution, especially when the road surface is mixed. Local road surfaces ruled this out as my driving conditions vary so much. The suspension modes are crucial, and ARS also controls roll in comfort mode. The result is that I often drive through the twisty roads faster in my F11 station wagon than I would even drive through the same corners in the E91 station wagon. In my opinion, AD helps make the car around you smaller and takes away the feeling of a big car. My advice is to always test the different suspension settings on the roads you normally drive on.
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| john1010 (994hp) | I think it's worth noting that BMW may have tinkered with the suspension and steering from year to year, given the pretty poor reviews they initially got. LCI cars definitely drive better. I drive both an e39 M-Sport '02 and a 535ix M-Sport '15. I find that the differences in handling and ride quality are mostly due to the wheelbase changes. (F30: 110.6, E39: 111.4, F10: 116.9) I drove a '15 535ix with adaptive drive and, while the difference was noticeable, it didn't impress me to the tune of $3,500 CAD. I know I can take highway exits as fast as I dare and it won't be the car stopping me from going faster without AD/DHP. Also you would have to look at the tires, RF or not, and 18 vs. 19 vs. 20. I wonder what matters most.
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| plowboy (820hp) | Quote: Originally posted by HighlandPete Quote: Originally posted by chrisny Sure, if you're looking for "Good" I suppose. Without ARS, it's a big car that drives like a big car. The conversation was about driving dynamics and comparing a smaller, more maneuverable car with a larger one. The current DHP (adaptive drive and ARS) closes that gap, and anyone who thinks the difference is negligible has either never driven one with these upgrades or doesn't care about the handling and body roll. I switched from an E91 car to the F11 car. For my driving it was important to select the “Adaptive Drive” option so that the car could be as close as possible to the smaller 3 Series. For me, AD is the “star” of all options when it comes to driving dynamics, comparing the 3 Series and 5 Series. The basic suspension will in no way give the 5 Series the driving feel of a smaller car. A passive M Sport suspension is not a complete solution, especially when the road surface is mixed. Local road surfaces ruled this out as my driving conditions vary so much. The suspension modes are crucial, and ARS also controls roll in comfort mode. The result is that I often drive through the twisty roads faster in my F11 station wagon than I would even drive through the same corners in the E91 station wagon. In my opinion, AD helps make the car around you smaller and takes away the feeling of a big car. My advice is to always test the different suspension settings on the roads you normally drive on. +1, but for me ARS is what was missing in my xdrive F30. The absence of the stiffer springs in the xdrive could not be nearly compensated for by the active dampers. ARS does this on the F10 and does it well. The two together (ARS+AD) do a lot more than you might think before you drive a car. I remember talking to a salesman about this when I bought an E 4.8 years ago70.
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| bella (596hp) | Quote: Originally posted by chrisny +1 but for me ARS is what was missing in my xdrive F30. The absence of the stiffer springs in the xdrive could not be nearly compensated for by the active dampers. ARS does this on the F10 and does it well. The two together (ARS+AD) do a lot more than you might think before you drive a car. I remember talking to a salesman about this when I bought an E70 4.8 years ago. I completely agree that ARS is the key component to a 5 Series' better handling. I read that the next generation 3 Series will have an option for some sort of active roll stabilization. Here in Europe we don't have the DHP option, we have a standalone VDC (active dampers) and Adaptive Drive (VDC+ARS) option. IAS (Integral Active Steering) is available as a separate option. I don't have an IAS, which is very rare here in the UK, so I never had the chance to try it out before I got my F11. ARS is kind of scary how flat the car can corner, even with a comfort suspension setting. I still marvel at its performance even after living with it for three years. I also really appreciate the fact that the ARBs can practically decouple on the straight and absorb individual bumps. Many of the roads I drive on are poorly paved and/or broken all the way to the curb. So keep in mind constantly that bumps from individual wheels won't make the car traverse the way you would feel from a stiff ARB, which offers similar roll control in the corners. AD means less compromise for any of us who are very sensitive to suspension vibrations and higher body frequencies.
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| twiglet (600hp) | Quote: Originally posted by chrisny I would also like to echo Bbb34's sentiments regarding the ability to tone down the ride if necessary. Another thing that might not be a problem in some areas, but given the pothole-riddled roads of the Northeast, it's nice when a luxury sedan actually feels like one, even in sport mode. My 550 absorbs shock and stays stiff in the corners better than my 335xi and better than my wife's X5 (no DHP). I don't know if this is also the case with passive drive, but since adaptive drive first came onto the market years ago, it made sense not only in terms of performance but also comfort. The F10's passive M sports suspension offers a comfortable ride, absorbs bumps well and still offers sporty handling. It differs significantly from the passive M sports suspension of the F30/F36. I also own an F36 (435i GC) with the passive M Sport suspension and the ride on this car is quite harsh. I would recommend getting the adaptive suspension for the 3 and 4 series, but wouldn't bother with it on the 5 series, at least not on the RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension).).
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| emo4life (202hp) | Quote: Originally posted by visualguy The F10's passive M Sport suspension offers a comfortable ride, absorbs shocks well and still offers sporty handling. It differs significantly from the passive M sports suspension of the F30/F36. I also own an F36 (435i GC) with the passive M Sport suspension and the ride on this car is quite harsh. I would recommend purchasing the adaptive suspension for the 3 and 4 series, but wouldn't bother with it on the 5 series, at least not on the RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension). Personally, I don't think it's that simple. For me, it's not just the suspension characteristics of the car, but also the roads we drive on that influence the type of suspension I prefer. I find that even with Adaptive Drive, I don't want to be limited to sports suspension mode all the time. Some parts of the road network I use in Scotland are simply of poor quality and the car is unsettled in sport mode, secondary ride quality deteriorating. Run the medium setting and the compromises are fine, in fact everything is sorted well. Passive M Sport suspensions can be too firm and unsettled in my conditions, the working envelope is far too narrow for decent primary and secondary ride quality on various roads. My priorities are good roll and body control as well as good secondary ride comfort, for me AD delivers both. I drive part of the way in the south of England. If I were there all the time, a passive sport suspension might well be sufficient, as sport mode with AD is practically always fine. It's great that we have a choice. I commend BMW for giving us the options. Just get the right setup for your personal riding needs.
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| dday (810hp) | Quote: Originally posted by visualguy The F10's passive M Sport suspension provides a comfortable ride, absorbing shocks well while providing sporty handling.. ...at least on RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension ). For my personal taste they should all be rear wheel drive with M Sport suspension, that's what BMW is all about, well BMW (this isn't 100% serious - I'm fully aware of the benefits of xDrive). The fact is that not all F10s have rear-wheel drive with M sports suspension. Buyers have different needs and preferences and in my opinion DHP gives you the best of both worlds. I understand (and completely agree with you) that there is no need for DHP in your specific case. I would also be completely satisfied with the same configuration. But I feel like you're dismissing this option a little too quickly for those who want flexibility or an improvement over the base suspension. But enough with derailing the thread, let's hear from OP how the test drive went ?
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| 111291 (287hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Attila7 I think it's worth noting that BMW may have tinkered with the suspension and steering from year to year given the pretty poor reviews they initially received. LCI cars definitely drive better. I drive both an e39 M-Sport '02 and a 535ix M-Sport '15. I find that the differences in handling and ride quality are mostly due to the wheelbase changes. (F30: 110.6, E39: 111.4, F10: 116.9) I drove a '15 535ix with adaptive drive and, while the difference was noticeable, it didn't impress me to the tune of $3,500 CAD. I know I can take highway exits as fast as I dare and it won't be the car stopping me from going faster without AD/DHP. Also you would have to look at the tires, RF or not, and 18 vs. 19 vs. 20. I wonder what matters most. Bingo. LCI non-DHP are much easier to handle than pre-LCI non-DHP. I'm not sure if it's possible to get objective evidence of this, but I've driven both and felt a noticeable difference in roll and steering feel.
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| 1q2w3e4r5t6z (427hp) | OK. I did a test drive on Saturday. 2013 535i with msport (no DHP - at least the dealer wasn't sure). The interior of the E90 328i is much more refined and in a different class (I absolutely loved it). It's a big car, but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we took a test drive and I was disappointed. The power output is not what I expected after reading all the comments here. The car is much heavier than I'm used to. The ride is nice but didn't give me the smile factor. Simply too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. The corners felt so long and combined with the soft steering it completely killed the thrill of driving a BMW. I'm not sure how much JB4 would improve the lack of performance. But I think I'll go with the 335i M-Sport, sacrificing comfort for a more responsive ride. Don't get me wrong, the car is nice, but for me it would just be a vehicle that gets you from A to B safely and comfortably. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it feels great driving E90 on the way home. The strong steering, great feedback and N/A motor do the job for me. It's a pity that F30 is only turbo, but I think I won't get used to it...
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| precioso (109hp) | Sounds like you must be driving a 550. However, the size doesn't help. It's definitely a different feeling, especially on curves and in parking lots. It takes some getting used to and, at least for me, the fun factor returns once you've mastered it. It's still a different feeling when the car is gliding through the corners rather than just driving away, but with the right equipment and a little getting used to, you can throw it around. More fun than a 3? Absolutely not. Sounds like the jump from the original, true BMW feel of an E90 to an F10 might be too much for you. Just be prepared that the F30 will also have you wondering where the heavy steering and a few other things went. Make sure you get VSS in one way or another to reduce this loss. It helps, but the steering might still bother you a bit.
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| dindon (345hp) | Get the adaptive suspension when you buy a 3 or 4 Series. The passive M sports suspension is quite hard. Unlike the 5 Series, where the passive M sports suspension ensures good comfort. The driving experience of the 5 Series is very different to that of the 3 Series - just like you mentioned. Personally, I prefer a more comfortable and quiet ride, so I prefer the 5 Series. If you want something a little more appealing and sporty, the 3 Series or 4 Series are the better choice.
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| magelang (97hp) | Quote: Originally posted by visualguy Get the adaptive suspension if you buy a 3 or 4 Series. The passive M sports suspension is quite hard. Unlike the 5 Series, where the passive M sports suspension ensures good comfort. The driving experience of the 5 Series is very different to that of the 3 Series - just like you mentioned. Personally, I prefer a more comfortable and quiet ride, so I prefer the 5 Series. If you want something a little more appealing and sporty, the 3 Series or 4 Series are the better choice. You're right! I wouldn't mind an M5
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| BMW3R (262hp) | It's a shame you didn't like it, but perhaps you went in with somewhat unrealistic expectations and reiterated the obvious, but 3 and 5 are very different cars. When I first took it for a test drive, I was a bit disappointed and had unrealistic expectations of 3 Series-like handling. However, unlike you, I didn't feel like there was a lack of engine performance/power delivery, even with the extra weight of the car. After randomly trying direct competitors in the same class/size, I discovered DHP and never looked back. At least you tried, hopefully you will be happy with the 335. Have you ever test driven the 335? While it's nimbler than 5 like Chrisny said...be prepared that the F30 will also have you wondering where the heavy steering and some other things went.....
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| blulite (776hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 90rr Ok. I did a test drive on Saturday. 2013 535i with msport (no DHP - at least the dealer wasn't sure). The interior of the E90 328i is much more refined and in a different class (I absolutely loved it). It's a big car, but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we took a test drive and I was disappointed. The power output is not what I expected after reading all the comments here. The car is much heavier than I'm used to. The ride is nice but didn't give me the smile factor. Simply too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. The corners felt so long and combined with the soft steering it completely killed the thrill of driving a BMW. I'm not sure how much JB4 would improve the lack of performance. But I think I'll go with the 335i M-Sport, sacrificing comfort for a more responsive ride. Don't get me wrong, the car is nice, but for me it would just be a vehicle that gets you from A to B safely and comfortably. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it feels great driving E90 on the way home. The strong steering, great feedback and N/A motor do the job for me. It's a shame that the F30 is only turbocharged, but I don't think I'll get used to it... When I first test drove the F10, it was the 2013 model year and a 535. At the time I was driving an E90 335 - so a similar situation to yours. I HATED driving the '13 535. Same problems as you - it was sloppy, all over the road, slower than I expected, etc. I went home and experienced a bit of a renewal of love for my 335i. A year later when the LCI '14 came out. This time I went back and tested several other options - including DHP and including the 550. My opinion changed dramatically. First of all, the F10's standard suspension felt far too soft compared to the sports suspension on a 3 Series model. I found that DHP was perfect for me. I wanted a soft, comfortable ride at times (particularly in city centers on rough roads), but at the same time I also wanted it to feel controlled and sporty on well-maintained roads and highways. DHP, along with its ARS feature, offered exactly that - and it was the only way to drive an xDrive car (no sports suspension option). To solve the performance problem I chose the 550. It's a bigger car than the 3 Series, but it's also faster. Perfect. Now it really is as fast as a DD sedan really needs to be, comfortable, roomy enough and handles appropriately for the situation. DHP on the F10 is definitely one of my favorite options...if not THE favorite option.
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| 111993 (919hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 90rr Quote: Originally posted by visualguy Get the adaptive suspension when you buy a 3 or 4 Series. The passive M sports suspension is quite hard. Unlike the 5 Series, where the passive M sports suspension ensures good comfort. The driving experience of the 5 Series is very different to that of the 3 Series - just like you mentioned. Personally, I prefer a more comfortable and quiet ride, so I prefer the 5 Series. If you want something a little more appealing and sporty, the 3 Series or 4 Series are the better choice. You're right! I wouldn't mind an M5. Get the M5. Trust me... you will love it!
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| 231275 (278hp) | I think at the test drive it took me a year to find a car that I wanted at the price, color, etc... and once I found the car I flew to California and drove 1400,000 miles. I originally looked at the 535i F10 and ended up buying the 550i F10. I'm glad I did. Good luck with your search. One more thing: be careful if the offer seems too good to be true. Don't let yourself be cheated.
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| kisses4 (405hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 90rr Ok. I did a test drive on Saturday. 2013 535i with msport (no DHP - at least the dealer wasn't sure). The interior of the E90 328i is much more refined and in a different class (I absolutely loved it). It's a big car, but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we took a test drive and I was disappointed. The power output is not what I expected after reading all the comments here. The car is much heavier than I'm used to. The ride is nice but didn't give me the smile factor. Simply too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. The corners felt so long and combined with the soft steering it completely killed the thrill of driving a BMW. I'm not sure how much JB4 would improve the lack of performance. But I think I'll go with the 335i M-Sport, sacrificing comfort for a more responsive ride. Don't get me wrong, the car is nice, but for me it would just be a vehicle that gets you from A to B safely and comfortably. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it feels great driving E90 on the way home. The strong steering, great feedback and N/A motor do the job for me. It's a shame the F30 is turbo only, but I don't think I'll get used to it... I recently test drove a 2013 535i MSport, but with 6mt, and felt very similar to your impression. Coming out of a 2007 328i E92 Coupe with Sport and MT, my impression was that not only did the F10 feel huge and disconnected from the road, but it also felt slower!! Even if Sport is selected. But I bought it anyway!!! I felt like this was a natural reaction to the smaller and 9 year old E92 and that the compromises were worth the upgrade. My goal is to live with it for a while before thinking about suspension modifications. Anything I do to lower the suspension or add more ride quality also affects the ride quality. That's why I decided to upgrade from a non-sporty E60 to the E9x in the first place: I wanted that feeling and thought it would be counterproductive to make the larger 5-Series into something it wasn't. Not everyone agrees with me, but modifying the larger car to make it feel smaller logically resulted in me simply becoming smaller. This is subjective as everyone has their own preference for their decision. I'll miss the driving dynamics of the E9x, but at the same time I'll just enjoy the F10 MSport because it's the big touring machine that was meant for me. The fit and finish of the F30 and the range of options were not very appealing at the moment as I prefer to buy my cars used with just under 30,000 miles. After a week of owning it, I am very satisfied.
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| thrasher1 (51hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 90rr Hello everyone. My E90 328i is almost ready to find a new home and I started looking for a 2013 335i with the M Sport package. It goes without saying that my vehicle recognition process is very slow due to the configuration and I take my time until everything is right (price, options, color, etc.). Lately I've been paying more and more attention to the 535i with M-Sport. Much more space (I'm 1.80 m tall) and luxury for almost the same price. I haven't taken a test drive yet and would like to hear from you if anyone has had a similar dilemma and gone both ways. I like the power delivery on the 335, but you get more bang for your buck with the 5. Thank you in advance. I like the 3 Series, but like you - I'm 6'3" so I've never had the space I needed. That's why I'm here for the third time in a row. Add to that the fact that I have a family and it's a piece of cake. I bought my 535 a few weeks ago at a great price.
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| giadina (354hp) | Quote: Originally written by visualguy. Well, let's just agree to disagree. I drove my 2016 550i with the M Sport suspension on winding roads like Highway 17, Highway 9 and Skyline Dr. drove in NorCal and he behaved very well. I didn't feel any of the body roll you're talking about or any suspension issues. There is no shortage of speeds on public roads. It's a great balance between sport and comfort and it's great not having to mess with the settings. Since I also own a Porsche Cayman GTS, I am very familiar with good handling. I wouldn't bother with DHP or IAS. Use the money for a nice road trip vacation or for the next car... I think you may not have understood what we, or at least I, were trying to say. I agree with you overall, except for your last statement about DHP. With the base suspension you would certainly feel the body swaying in the same car (especially the 550) on the same roads you mention. Not nearly as much with 704 or DHP in Sport/Sport+ mode. Don't forget that DHP also gives you a comfortable/soft ride on rough roads in comfort mode. For some, as discussed in detail in other threads, this is a great option (admittedly, I almost never use it myself). Personally, I would recommend either the basic suspension and would advise any potential buyer to try both if possible. In my opinion, an M sports suspension or a DHP upgrade are money well spent. Cars with basic suspension are great for a large car, those with M-Sport or DHP ride much better - DHP changes the car in ways I didn't think possible. Anyone who has tried it will know what we are talking about.
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| 290785 (393hp) | Quote: Originally posted by visualguy Quote: Originally posted by chrisny Sure, if good is what you're looking for, I suppose. Without ARS, it's a big car that drives like a big car. The conversation was about driving dynamics and comparing a smaller, more maneuverable car with a larger one. The current DHP (adaptive drive and ARS) closes that gap, and anyone who thinks the difference is negligible has either never driven one with these upgrades or doesn't care about the handling and body roll. Well, let's just agree to disagree. I drove my 2016 550i with the M Sport suspension on winding roads like Highway 17, Highway 9 and Skyline Dr. drove in NorCal and he behaved very well. I didn't feel any of the body roll you're talking about or any suspension issues. There is no shortage of speeds on public roads. It's a great balance between sport and comfort and it's great not having to mess with the settings. Since I also own a Porsche Cayman GTS, I am very familiar with good handling. I wouldn't bother with DHP or IAS. Use the money for a nice road trip vacation or to get to the next car... Fine. I should have stated that my comments referred to X-Drive cars (which I take for granted since I live in the Northeast). Is your 550 RWD? I believe that XDrive models either don't have the passive M or at least don't have stiffer springs. Then DHP becomes essential for me. I would also like to echo Bbb34's opinion regarding the ability to tone down the ride if necessary. Another thing that might not be a problem in some areas, but given the pothole-riddled roads of the Northeast, it's nice when a luxury sedan actually feels like one, even in sport mode. My 550 absorbs shock and stays stiff in the corners better than my 335xi and better than my wife's X5 (no DHP). I don't know if this is also the case with passive drive, but since adaptive drive first came onto the market years ago, it made sense not only in terms of performance but also comfort. So once again, when looking at these options, you have to consider RWD vs.
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| Punitive (576hp) | Quote: Originally posted by chrisny Sure, if good is what you're looking for, I suppose. Without ARS, it's a big car that drives like a big car. The conversation was about driving dynamics and comparing a smaller, more maneuverable car with a larger one. The current DHP (adaptive drive and ARS) closes that gap, and anyone who thinks the difference is negligible has either never driven one with these upgrades or doesn't care about the handling and body roll. I switched from an E91 car to the F11 car. For my driving it was important to select the “Adaptive Drive” option so that the car could be as close as possible to the smaller 3 Series. For me, AD is the “star” of all options when it comes to driving dynamics, comparing the 3 Series and 5 Series. The basic suspension will in no way give the 5 Series the driving feel of a smaller car. A passive M Sport suspension is not a complete solution, especially when the road surface is mixed. Local road surfaces ruled this out as my driving conditions vary so much. The suspension modes are crucial, and ARS also controls roll in comfort mode. The result is that I often drive through the twisty roads faster in my F11 station wagon than I would even drive through the same corners in the E91 station wagon. In my opinion, AD helps make the car around you smaller and takes away the feeling of a big car. My advice is to always test the different suspension settings on the roads you normally drive on.
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| jack09 (163hp) | I think it's worth noting that BMW may have tinkered with the suspension and steering from year to year, given the pretty poor reviews they initially got. LCI cars definitely drive better. I drive both an e39 M-Sport '02 and a 535ix M-Sport '15. I find that the differences in handling and ride quality are mostly due to the wheelbase changes. (F30: 110.6, E39: 111.4, F10: 116.9) I drove a '15 535ix with adaptive drive and, while the difference was noticeable, it didn't impress me to the tune of $3,500 CAD. I know I can take highway exits as fast as I dare and it won't be the car stopping me from going faster without AD/DHP. Also you would have to look at the tires, RF or not, and 18 vs. 19 vs. 20. I wonder what matters most.
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| 230488 (745hp) | Quote: Originally posted by HighlandPete Quote: Originally posted by chrisny Sure, if you're looking for "Good" I suppose. Without ARS, it's a big car that drives like a big car. The conversation was about driving dynamics and comparing a smaller, more maneuverable car with a larger one. The current DHP (adaptive drive and ARS) closes that gap, and anyone who thinks the difference is negligible has either never driven one with these upgrades or doesn't care about the handling and body roll. I switched from an E91 car to the F11 car. For my driving it was important to select the “Adaptive Drive” option so that the car could be as close as possible to the smaller 3 Series. For me, AD is the “star” of all options when it comes to driving dynamics, comparing the 3 Series and 5 Series. The basic suspension will in no way give the 5 Series the driving feel of a smaller car. A passive M Sport suspension is not a complete solution, especially when the road surface is mixed. Local road surfaces ruled this out as my driving conditions vary so much. The suspension modes are crucial, and ARS also controls roll in comfort mode. The result is that I often drive through the twisty roads faster in my F11 station wagon than I would even drive through the same corners in the E91 station wagon. In my opinion, AD helps make the car around you smaller and takes away the feeling of a big car. My advice is to always test the different suspension settings on the roads you normally drive on. +1, but for me ARS is what was missing in my xdrive F30. The absence of the stiffer springs in the xdrive could not be nearly compensated for by the active dampers. ARS does this on the F10 and does it well. The two together (ARS+AD) do a lot more than you might think before you drive a car. I remember talking to a salesman about this when I bought an E 4.8 years ago70.
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| sneaker1 (243hp) | Quote: Originally posted by chrisny +1 but for me ARS is what was missing in my xdrive F30. The absence of the stiffer springs in the xdrive could not be nearly compensated for by the active dampers. ARS does this on the F10 and does it well. The two together (ARS+AD) do a lot more than you might think before you drive a car. I remember talking to a salesman about this when I bought an E70 4.8 years ago. I completely agree that ARS is the key component to a 5 Series' better handling. I read that the next generation 3 Series will have an option for some sort of active roll stabilization. Here in Europe we don't have the DHP option, we have a standalone VDC (active dampers) and Adaptive Drive (VDC+ARS) option. IAS (Integral Active Steering) is available as a separate option. I don't have an IAS, which is very rare here in the UK, so I never had the chance to try it out before I got my F11. ARS is kind of scary how flat the car can corner, even with a comfort suspension setting. I still marvel at its performance even after living with it for three years. I also really appreciate the fact that the ARBs can practically decouple on the straight and absorb individual bumps. Many of the roads I drive on are poorly paved and/or broken all the way to the curb. So keep in mind constantly that bumps from individual wheels won't make the car traverse the way you would feel from a stiff ARB, which offers similar roll control in the corners. AD means less compromise for any of us who are very sensitive to suspension vibrations and higher body frequencies.
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| 17101975 (122hp) | Quote: Originally posted by chrisny I would also like to echo Bbb34's sentiments regarding the ability to tone down the ride if necessary. Another thing that might not be a problem in some areas, but given the pothole-riddled roads of the Northeast, it's nice when a luxury sedan actually feels like one, even in sport mode. My 550 absorbs shock and stays stiff in the corners better than my 335xi and better than my wife's X5 (no DHP). I don't know if this is also the case with passive drive, but since adaptive drive first came onto the market years ago, it made sense not only in terms of performance but also comfort. The F10's passive M sports suspension offers a comfortable ride, absorbs bumps well and still offers sporty handling. It differs significantly from the passive M sports suspension of the F30/F36. I also own an F36 (435i GC) with the passive M Sport suspension and the ride on this car is quite harsh. I would recommend getting the adaptive suspension for the 3 and 4 series, but wouldn't bother with it on the 5 series, at least not on the RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension).).
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| chechen (253hp) | Quote: Originally posted by visualguy The F10's passive M Sport suspension offers a comfortable ride, absorbs shocks well and still offers sporty handling. It differs significantly from the passive M sports suspension of the F30/F36. I also own an F36 (435i GC) with passive M Sport suspension and the handling of this car is quite harsh. I would recommend purchasing the adaptive suspension for the 3 and 4 series, but wouldn't bother with it on the 5 series, at least not on the RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension). Personally, I don't think it's that simple. For me, it's not just the suspension characteristics of the car, but also the roads we drive on that influence the type of suspension I prefer. I find that even with Adaptive Drive, I don't want to be limited to sports suspension mode all the time. Some parts of the road network I use in Scotland are simply of poor quality and the car is unsettled in sport mode, secondary ride quality deteriorating. Run the medium setting and the compromises are fine, in fact everything is sorted well. Passive M Sport suspensions can be too firm and unsettled in my conditions, the working envelope is far too narrow for decent primary and secondary ride quality on various roads. My priorities are good roll and body control as well as good secondary ride comfort, for me AD delivers both. I drive part of the way in the south of England. If I were there all the time, a passive sport suspension might well be sufficient, as sport mode with AD is practically always fine. It's great that we have a choice. I commend BMW for giving us the options. Just get the right setup for your personal riding needs.
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| confused2 (912hp) | Quote: Originally posted by visualguy The F10's passive M Sport suspension provides a comfortable ride, absorbing shocks well while providing sporty handling.. ...at least on RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension ). For my personal taste they should all be rear wheel drive with M Sport suspension, that's what BMW is all about, well BMW (this isn't 100% serious - I'm fully aware of the benefits of xDrive). The fact is that not all F10s have rear-wheel drive with M sports suspension. Buyers have different needs and preferences and in my opinion DHP gives you the best of both worlds. I understand (and completely agree with you) that there is no need for DHP in your specific case. I would also be completely satisfied with the same configuration. But I feel like you're dismissing this option a little too quickly for those who want flexibility or an improvement over the base suspension. But enough with derailing the thread, let's hear from OP how the test drive went ?
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| lucy10 (424hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Attila7 I think it's worth noting that BMW may have tinkered with the suspension and steering from year to year given the pretty poor reviews they initially received. LCI cars definitely drive better. I drive both an e39 M-Sport '02 and a 535ix M-Sport '15. I find that the differences in handling and ride quality are mostly due to the wheelbase changes. (F30: 110.6, E39: 111.4, F10: 116.9) I drove a '15 535ix with adaptive drive and, while the difference was noticeable, it didn't impress me to the tune of $3,500 CAD. I know I can take highway exits as fast as I dare and it won't be the car stopping me from going faster without AD/DHP. Also you would have to look at the tires, RF or not, and 18 vs. 19 vs. 20. I wonder what matters most. Bingo. LCI non-DHP are much easier to handle than pre-LCI non-DHP. I'm not sure if it's possible to get objective evidence of this, but I've driven both and felt a noticeable difference in roll and steering feel.
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| ville (923hp) | OK. I did a test drive on Saturday. 2013 535i with msport (no DHP - at least the dealer wasn't sure). The interior of the E90 328i is much more refined and in a different class (I absolutely loved it). It's a big car, but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we took a test drive and I was disappointed. The power output is not what I expected after reading all the comments here. The car is much heavier than I'm used to. The ride is nice but didn't give me the smile factor. Simply too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. The corners felt so long and combined with the soft steering it completely killed the thrill of driving a BMW. I'm not sure how much JB4 would improve the lack of performance. But I think I'll go with the 335i M-Sport, sacrificing comfort for a more responsive ride. Don't get me wrong, the car is nice, but for me it would just be a vehicle that gets you from A to B safely and comfortably. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it feels great driving E90 on the way home. The strong steering, great feedback and N/A motor do the job for me. It's a pity that F30 is only turbo, but I think I won't get used to it...
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| squish (768hp) | Sounds like you must be driving a 550. However, the size doesn't help. It's definitely a different feeling, especially on curves and in parking lots. It takes some getting used to and, at least for me, the fun factor returns once you've mastered it. It's still a different feeling when the car is gliding through the corners rather than just driving away, but with the right equipment and a little getting used to, you can throw it around. More fun than a 3? Absolutely not. Sounds like the jump from the original, true BMW feel of an E90 to an F10 might be too much for you. Just be prepared that the F30 will also have you wondering where the heavy steering and a few other things went. Make sure you get VSS in one way or another to reduce this loss. It helps, but the steering might still bother you a bit.
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| logan5 (790hp) | Get the adaptive suspension when you buy a 3 or 4 Series. The passive M sports suspension is quite hard. Unlike the 5 Series, where the passive M sports suspension ensures good comfort. The driving experience of the 5 Series is very different to that of the 3 Series - just like you mentioned. Personally, I prefer a more comfortable and quiet ride, so I prefer the 5 Series. If you want something a little more appealing and sporty, the 3 Series or 4 Series are the better choice.
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| sweeties (859hp) | Quote: Originally posted by visualguy Get the adaptive suspension if you buy a 3 or 4 Series. The passive M sports suspension is quite hard. Unlike the 5 Series, where the passive M sports suspension ensures good comfort. The driving experience of the 5 Series is very different to that of the 3 Series - just like you mentioned. Personally, I prefer a more comfortable and quiet ride, so I prefer the 5 Series. If you want something a little more appealing and sporty, the 3 Series or 4 Series are the better choice. You're right! I wouldn't mind an M5
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| bigdog13 (151hp) | It's a shame you didn't like it, but perhaps you went in with somewhat unrealistic expectations and reiterated the obvious, but 3 and 5 are very different cars. When I first took it for a test drive, I was a bit disappointed and had unrealistic expectations of 3 Series-like handling. However, unlike you, I didn't feel like there was a lack of engine performance/power delivery, even with the extra weight of the car. After randomly trying direct competitors in the same class/size, I discovered DHP and never looked back. At least you tried, hopefully you will be happy with the 335. Have you ever test driven the 335? While it's nimbler than 5 like Chrisny said...be prepared that the F30 will also have you wondering where the heavy steering and some other things went.....
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| pearl (658hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 90rr Ok. I did a test drive on Saturday. 2013 535i with msport (no DHP - at least the dealer wasn't sure). The interior of the E90 328i is much more refined and in a different class (I absolutely loved it). It's a big car, but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we took a test drive and I was disappointed. The power output is not what I expected after reading all the comments here. The car is much heavier than I'm used to. The ride is nice but didn't give me the smile factor. Simply too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. The corners felt so long and combined with the soft steering it completely killed the thrill of driving a BMW. I'm not sure how much JB4 would improve the lack of performance. But I think I'll go with the 335i M-Sport, sacrificing comfort for a more responsive ride. Don't get me wrong, the car is nice, but for me it would just be a vehicle that gets you from A to B safely and comfortably. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it feels great driving E90 on the way home. The strong steering, great feedback and N/A motor do the job for me. It's a shame that the F30 is only turbocharged, but I don't think I'll get used to it... When I first test drove the F10, it was the 2013 model year and a 535. At the time I was driving an E90 335 - so a similar situation to yours. I HATED driving the '13 535. Same problems as you - it was sloppy, all over the road, slower than I expected, etc. I went home and experienced a bit of a renewal of love for my 335i. A year later when the LCI '14 came out. This time I went back and tested several other options - including DHP and including the 550. My opinion changed dramatically. First of all, the F10's standard suspension felt far too soft compared to the sports suspension on a 3 Series model. I found that DHP was perfect for me. I wanted a soft, comfortable ride at times (particularly in city centers on rough roads), but at the same time I also wanted it to feel controlled and sporty on well-maintained roads and highways. DHP, along with its ARS feature, offered exactly that - and it was the only way to drive an xDrive car (no sports suspension option). To solve the performance problem I chose the 550. It's a bigger car than the 3 Series, but it's also faster. Perfect. Now it really is as fast as a DD sedan really needs to be, comfortable, roomy enough and handles appropriately for the situation. DHP on the F10 is definitely one of my favorite options...if not THE favorite option.
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| start12 (900hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 90rr Quote: Originally posted by visualguy Get the adaptive suspension when you buy a 3 or 4 Series. The passive M sports suspension is quite hard. Unlike the 5 Series, where the passive M sports suspension ensures good comfort. The driving experience of the 5 Series is very different to that of the 3 Series - just like you mentioned. Personally, I prefer a more comfortable and quiet ride, so I prefer the 5 Series. If you want something a little more appealing and sporty, the 3 Series or 4 Series are the better choice. You're right! I wouldn't mind an M5. Get the M5. Trust me... you will love it!
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| starwars123 (358hp) | I think at the test drive it took me a year to find a car that I wanted at the price, color, etc... and once I found the car I flew to California and drove 1400,000 miles. I originally looked at the 535i F10 and ended up buying the 550i F10. I'm glad I did. Good luck with your search. One more thing: be careful if the offer seems too good to be true. Don't let yourself be cheated.
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| kader (82hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 90rr Ok. I did a test drive on Saturday. 2013 535i with msport (no DHP - at least the dealer wasn't sure). The interior of the E90 328i is much more refined and in a different class (I absolutely loved it). It's a big car, but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we took a test drive and I was disappointed. The power output is not what I expected after reading all the comments here. The car is much heavier than I'm used to. The ride is nice but didn't give me the smile factor. Simply too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. The corners felt so long and combined with the soft steering it completely killed the thrill of driving a BMW. I'm not sure how much JB4 would improve the lack of performance. But I think I'll go with the 335i M-Sport, sacrificing comfort for a more responsive ride. Don't get me wrong, the car is nice, but for me it would just be a vehicle that gets you from A to B safely and comfortably. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it feels great driving E90 on the way home. The strong steering, great feedback and N/A motor do the job for me. It's a shame the F30 is turbo only, but I don't think I'll get used to it... I recently test drove a 2013 535i MSport, but with 6mt, and felt very similar to your impression. Coming out of a 2007 328i E92 Coupe with Sport and MT, my impression was that not only did the F10 feel huge and disconnected from the road, but it also felt slower!! Even if Sport is selected. But I bought it anyway!!! I felt like this was a natural reaction to the smaller and 9 year old E92 and that the compromises were worth the upgrade. My goal is to live with it for a while before thinking about suspension modifications. Anything I do to lower the suspension or add more ride quality also affects the ride quality. That's why I decided to upgrade from a non-sporty E60 to the E9x in the first place: I wanted that feeling and thought it would be counterproductive to make the larger 5-Series into something it wasn't. Not everyone agrees with me, but modifying the larger car to make it feel smaller logically resulted in me simply becoming smaller. This is subjective as everyone has their own preference for their decision. I'll miss the driving dynamics of the E9x, but at the same time I'll just enjoy the F10 MSport because it's the big touring machine that was meant for me. The fit and finish of the F30 and the range of options were not very appealing at the moment as I prefer to buy my cars used with just under 30,000 miles. After a week of owning it, I am very satisfied.
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| bmw318is (760hp) | Quote: Originally posted by 90rr Hello everyone. My E90 328i is almost ready to find a new home and I started looking for a 2013 335i with the M Sport package. It goes without saying that my vehicle recognition process is very slow due to the configuration and I take my time until everything is right (price, options, color, etc.). Lately I've been paying more and more attention to the 535i with M-Sport. Much more space (I'm 1.80 m tall) and luxury for almost the same price. I haven't taken a test drive yet and would like to hear from you if anyone has had a similar dilemma and gone both ways. I like the power delivery on the 335, but you get more bang for your buck with the 5. Thank you in advance. I like the 3 Series, but like you - I'm 6'3" so I've never had the space I needed. That's why I'm here for the third time in a row. Add to that the fact that I have a family and it's a piece of cake. I bought my 535 a few weeks ago at a great price.
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| jeep123 (249hp) | Does anyone have experience with this? Supposedly it's a factory part, but I can't find any specs or reviews anywhere. Or reviews about it. https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-F10-55...tch/ES2207490/
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| 535d2014 (232hp) | Does anyone have experience with this? Supposedly it's a factory part, but I can't find any specs or reviews anywhere. Or reviews about it. https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-F10-55...tch/ES2207490/
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| whoareyou1 (469hp) | My 2013 Jet Black had no blind spot display or heated seats. Neither was a deal breaker, especially because I only wanted to buy one with 6 MT, but brought it home and asked my wife where the seat button was! Your 2015 Audi Allroad has both. I have HUD. It's nice, but not when my butt is cold! My car came from Florida. Everyone has surprise items that are NOT on their car?
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| weed1234 (562hp) | At least you're in North Carolina and not North Dakota! In my opinion the 6 MT were mandatory and everything else was secondary. By the way, pretty Targa!
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| stella22 (375hp) | Quote: Originally written by Bargamon. My 2013 Jet Black had no blind spot display or heated seats. Neither was a deal breaker, especially because I only wanted to buy one with 6 MT, but brought it home and asked my wife where the seat button was! Your 2015 Audi Allroad has both. I have HUD. It's nice, but not when my butt is cold! My car came from Florida. Does anyone have any surprise items that are NOT on their car? Quote: Originally posted by Gpfarrell At least you're in North Carolina and not North Dakota! In my opinion the 6 MT were mandatory and everything else was secondary. By the way, pretty Targa! I felt the same way. MSport with 6mt at the right price and the right miles is not easy to find. The Porsche is sold. She was great fun.
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| RoundelM3 (883hp) | I was also surprised that my F10 didn't have heated seats. On the other hand, in Texas we use them for two weeks to a maximum of two months per year. Getting the cold weather package is almost a joke - I never felt the need for a heated steering wheel in South Texas. However, when I was skiing in Vancouver, this thing was a godsend for my rental. If they had a package for hot as hell weather THAT would come in handy. But I'll settle for the electric rear sunshade and manual sunshades. When it comes to blind spot monitors, you won't miss much. I find mine don't work nearly as well as Audi's (my wife has a 2016 Q3) and my eyeballs work better than the sensors. I don't plan on leaving two car lengths to change lanes.
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| w9998999 (101hp) | Quote: Originally posted by jabbarjd I was also surprised that my F10 didn't have heated seats. On the other hand, in Texas we use them for two weeks to a maximum of two months per year. Getting the cold weather package is almost a joke - I never felt the need for a heated steering wheel in South Texas. However, when I was skiing in Vancouver, this thing was a godsend for my rental. If they had a package for hot as hell weather THAT would come in handy. But I'll settle for the electric rear sunshade and manual sunshades. When it comes to blind spot monitors, you won't miss much. I find mine don't work nearly as well as Audi's (my wife has a 2016 Q3) and my eyeballs work better than the sensors. I don't plan on leaving two car lengths to change lanes. I'm right there with you, just 10 meters away. The first time my lovely bride drove with me she said, "Where are the heated seats?" Fast forward to now and she informed me that she likes my F10 better than her VW Bug convertible that she has been driving for six years . Amazing, because I thought she loved that bug more than me. She announced that she wanted a Honda CRV (we've had five Hondas during our marriage and had great success with them), but now she says a CPO X1 looks pretty nice as long as it has heated seats.
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| 17071989 (583hp) | Wow, I couldn't find a 6-speed manual transmission when I got mine a few weeks ago, but I have heated front and rear seats, HUD, blind spot (actually full driver assistance package), all-round visibility and M-Sport. The only options I'm missing are the multi-contour seats, the ventilated seats and the night vision. My car is a California car with 1 owner. I would have looked for a manual but I needed a new car ASAP, the previous car was totaled by a drunk driver. My car was equipped with an M-Performance exhaust.
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| 4xeaxR653E (496hp) | Even though I don't give a damn about blind spot warnings, backup cameras, adaptive cruise control, TPMS, etc., I don't know if I would ever buy a car again that didn't have heated seats. A heated steering wheel is pretty damn nice too.
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| lynn14 (626hp) | I'm surprised that electric folding mirrors aren't standard on an M Sport in the UK, but heated seats are.
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| ballin69 (59hp) | The problem with the cold weather package is the headlight washers. When I try to clean my windshield, the headlight washers spray shit on the front/sides of my nice black car (like I need headlight washers in San Diego...). There should be an option in i-drive to turn it off... I think it can be encoded, but I couldn't find a local who does the encoding on an F10. Even my kids like the heated back seats since it can be chilly at night and California residents wear shorts and flip flops year round...
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| fatdaddy1 (878hp) | Quote: Originally written by Luky. The problem with the cold weather package is the headlight washers. When I try to clean my windshield, the headlight washers spray shit on the front/sides of my nice black car (like I need headlight washers in San Diego...). There should be an option in i-drive to turn it off... I think it can be encoded, but I couldn't find a local who does the encoding on an F10. To prevent this, I temporarily turned off the lights on my black E70 when I used the washers! This isn't a big problem with my white F10...
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| blue52 (632hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Jcbama85, she now says a CPO X1 looks pretty sweet. I ordered one for my wife about a month ago but have to wait until June for it
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| gracie2 (325hp) | So the headlight washer system doesn't spray when the headlights are off? I usually leave them in automatic and turn on the fog lights so they come on during the day to get slow drivers out of the way.
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| volokitina.olga (993hp) | Quote: Originally written by Luky. So the headlight washer system doesn't spray when the headlights are off? I usually leave them in automatic and turn on the fog lights so they come on during the day to get slow drivers out of the way. Yes, they only work when the main light is on
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| mapleleaf (692hp) | Quote: Originally written by Luky...I think it can be encoded but I couldn't find a local who does the encoding on an F10......How is that??? Quote: 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. Saturday, April 2nd. We do the coding at the mall just off 56 at the Camino Del Sur exit. There used to be an Albertsons/Hagans that is now empty. The best landmark, in my opinion, is Peet's Coffee and Tea 7845 Highlands Village Pl C105, San Diego, CA 92129. We last met at the very high retaining wall at the south end of this area's parking lot. Lots of open parking and maybe some shade.
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| na335i (763hp) | Quote: Originally posted by ezaircon4jc How is that??? Sounds good to me!
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| numbers123 (973hp) | My 2013 Jet Black had no blind spot display or heated seats. Neither was a deal breaker, especially because I only wanted to buy one with 6 MT, but brought it home and asked my wife where the seat button was! Your 2015 Audi Allroad has both. I have HUD. It's nice, but not when my butt is cold! My car came from Florida. Everyone has surprise items that are NOT on their car?
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| exercise (657hp) | At least you're in North Carolina and not North Dakota! In my opinion the 6 MT were mandatory and everything else was secondary. By the way, pretty Targa!
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| 197676 (610hp) | Quote: Originally written by Bargamon. My 2013 Jet Black had no blind spot display or heated seats. Neither was a deal breaker, especially because I only wanted to buy one with 6 MT, but brought it home and asked my wife where the seat button was! Your 2015 Audi Allroad has both. I have HUD. It's nice, but not when my butt is cold! My car came from Florida. Does anyone have any surprise items that are NOT on their car? Quote: Originally posted by Gpfarrell At least you're in North Carolina and not North Dakota! In my opinion the 6 MT were mandatory and everything else was secondary. By the way, pretty Targa! I felt the same way. MSport with 6mt at the right price and the right miles is not easy to find. The Porsche is sold. She was great fun.
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| IMG (898hp) | I was also surprised that my F10 didn't have heated seats. On the other hand, in Texas we use them two weeks to two months maximum per year. Getting the cold weather package is almost a joke - I never felt the need for a heated steering wheel in South Texas. However, when I was skiing in Vancouver, this thing was a godsend for my rental. If they had a package for hot as hell weather THAT would come in handy. But I'll settle for the electric rear sunshade and manual sunshades. When it comes to blind spot monitors, you won't miss much. I find mine don't work nearly as well as Audi's (my wife has a 2016 Q3) and my eyeballs work better than the sensors. I don't plan on leaving two car lengths to change lanes.
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| boulogne (530hp) | Quote: Originally posted by jabbarjd I was also surprised that my F10 didn't have heated seats. On the other hand, in Texas we use them for two weeks to a maximum of two months per year. Getting the cold weather package is almost a joke - I never felt the need for a heated steering wheel in South Texas. However, when I was skiing in Vancouver, this thing was a godsend for my rental. If they had a package for hot as hell weather THAT would come in handy. But I'll settle for the electric rear sunshade and manual sunshades. When it comes to blind spot monitors, you won't miss much. I find mine don't work nearly as well as Audi's (my wife has a 2016 Q3) and my eyeballs work better than the sensors. I don't plan on leaving two car lengths to change lanes. I'm right there with you, just 10 meters away. The first time my lovely bride drove with me she said, "Where are the heated seats?" Fast forward to now and she informed me that she likes my F10 better than her VW Bug convertible that she has been driving for six years . Amazing, because I thought she loved that bug more than me. She announced that she wanted a Honda CRV (we've had five Hondas during our marriage and had great success with them), but now she says a CPO X1 looks pretty nice as long as it has heated seats.
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| guitars (166hp) | Wow, I couldn't find a 6-speed manual transmission when I got mine a few weeks ago, but I have heated front and rear seats, HUD, blind spot (actually full driver assistance package), all-round visibility and M-Sport. The only options I'm missing are the multi-contour seats, the ventilated seats and the night vision. My car is a California car with 1 owner. I would have looked for a manual but I needed a new car ASAP, the previous car was totaled by a drunk driver. My car was equipped with an M-Performance exhaust.
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| contessa (37hp) | Even though I don't give a damn about blind spot warnings, backup cameras, adaptive cruise control, TPMS, etc., I don't know if I would ever buy a car again that didn't have heated seats. A heated steering wheel is pretty damn nice too.
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| 224224 (828hp) | I'm surprised that electric folding mirrors aren't standard on an M Sport in the UK, but heated seats are.
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| guitarist (497hp) | The problem with the cold weather package is the headlight washers. When I try to clean my windshield, the headlight washers spray shit on the front/sides of my nice black car (like I need headlight washers in San Diego...). There should be an option in i-drive to turn it off... I think it can be encoded, but I couldn't find a local who does the encoding on an F10. Even my kids like the heated back seats since it can be chilly at night and California residents wear shorts and flip flops year round...
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| 0903 (234hp) | Quote: Originally written by Luky. The problem with the cold weather package is the headlight washers. When I try to clean my windshield, the headlight washers spray shit on the front/sides of my nice black car (like I need headlight washers in San Diego...). There should be an option in i-drive to turn it off... I think it can be encoded, but I couldn't find a local who does the encoding on an F10. To prevent this, I temporarily turned off the lights on my black E70 when I used the washers! This isn't a big problem with my white F10...
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| love1987 (600hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Jcbama85, she now says a CPO X1 looks pretty sweet. I ordered one for my wife about a month ago but have to wait until June for it
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| marie20 (135hp) | So the headlight washer system doesn't spray when the headlights are off? I usually leave them in automatic and turn on the fog lights so they come on during the day to get slow drivers out of the way.
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| hairdresser (470hp) | Quote: Originally written by Luky. So the headlight washer system doesn't spray when the headlights are off? I usually leave them in automatic and turn on the fog lights so they come on during the day to get slow drivers out of the way. Yes, they only work when the main light is on
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| 04051980 (789hp) | Quote: Originally written by Luky...I think it can be encoded but I couldn't find a local who does the encoding on an F10......How is that??? Quote: 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. Saturday, April 2nd. We do the coding at the mall just off 56 at the Camino Del Sur exit. There used to be an Albertsons/Hagans that is now empty. The best landmark, in my opinion, is Peet's Coffee and Tea 7845 Highlands Village Pl C105, San Diego, CA 92129. We last met at the very high retaining wall at the south end of this area's parking lot. Lots of open parking and maybe some shade.
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| peaches09 (711hp) | Quote: Originally posted by ezaircon4jc How is that??? Sounds good to me!
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| 180791 (994hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon D 3. Although driving dynamics are listed separately, they are not available without adaptive drive. It is only available with Sport Auto, but the rocker switch only has Normal, Sport and Sport+. Only DDC and/or Dynamic Drive have a comfort setting.
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| glory1 (643hp) | Good morning guys. I'm thinking about ordering the 5 series too, and I'm thinking about ordering a dynamic drive. It's quite expensive here and I wouldn't mind saving the money. The problem is that all 5 Series are available from dealers with adaptive drive. I asked them to test drive one without one, but they said they didn't have one without one. I remember driving the E60 M with 18 alloy wheels and for me that was a great combination of sport and comfort. With that in mind, I suspect the F10 standard would be perfectly fine (less comfort) but good enough. I am in doubt.
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| charlee (226hp) | Hello everyone! I'm in the process of ordering a 535d Touring with the M Sport package (among other things). However, I'm in the final configuration phase where you're wondering whether adding this other thing makes a difference or not. I'm wondering if you could give me some insight into whether it's really worth adding the Adaptive Drive option or not. So far I have only installed the Dynamic Dampening Control, but not the Adaptive Drive. Would it make a big difference? What are the benefits of this? I expect the car's cornering behavior to improve, but will it be noticeable enough? For example, does it also help to avoid uneven tire wear? Will it only become noticeable when you really demand a lot from the car, or is it the same as if you don't have it for the most part and are a relaxed driver? The price difference is about +2,300 EUR if I add it or leave my configuration as is (i.e. with the dynamic damping control). By the way, my current reference point is a 530d E60 with normal suspension and 18 M135 wheels. In my opinion it has a bit too much roll and pitch, but it's definitely comfortable! Maybe Jon D already has the new car and can give us a test report on the system. Thanks!
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| 211280 (700hp) | My US 550xi has 19 wheels, Dynamic Damper Control (in the US with Sport) and Active Roll Stabilization (which I think is the US term for Adaptive Drive). Here is my experience and research based theory on these features... AFAIK... 1) DDC only controls the damper rate, not the spring rate. DDC-equipped vehicles have a softer spring rate than M-suspension vehicles because they require this for a soft spring comfort setting. However, this means they maintain a soft spring rate even in the sport setting, only the dampers are tightened to enable a firmer ride. 2) If you want a ride closer to M stiffness, you will need to install stiffer aftermarket springs. This also affects your driving comfort. 3) A car with pleasantly soft springs (and a soft anti-roll bar) tends to roll more when cornering. ARS (Adaptive Drive) is an active system that counteracts this roll and allows the car to drive flat in corners in a sporty manner, although it is softer and more comfortable over bumps. 4) ARS has less to do with a car with an M chassis. Since it has stiffer springs and stabilizers for always sporty handling, it doesn't roll much in curves anyway. In addition, an active anti-roll system is not desirable for sporty driving, as you need feedback from a slight body inclination when driving over limits in order to be able to assess the cornering forces. The vast majority of race cars have passive (not active) anti-roll bars. 5) Experience has shown that ARS is very effective at providing a comfortable ride and staying flat even on 50 mph highway curves (which are plentiful near San Francisco). It's hard to say how much it is used at lower speeds or in the city. I 6) I bought ARS as a kind of “nice to have” and “try” feature. Since this is a hydraulic system, it may have a minor impact on fuel consumption. The hydraulics are quite reliable, but in the long term it is something mechanical that can break. Because of my knowledge and experience, I am an ARS professional...especially for cars with a high center of gravity like the X5/X6. This may be less important when driving the 5 Series around town or on straight highways. Without opposing forces, ARS can't do much. 7) Especially with RFTs, 18-wheel setups are more durable and comfortable than 19/20 setups, but many find 19/20 setups look better.
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| db123 (164hp) | Quote: Originally posted by davesf My US 550xi has 19 wheels, Dynamic Damper Control (in the US it comes with Sport) and Active Roll Stabilization (which I think is the US term for Adaptive Drive). Here is my experience and research based theory on these features... AFAIK... 1) DDC only controls the damper rate, not the spring rate. DDC-equipped vehicles have a softer spring rate than M-suspension vehicles because they require this for a soft spring comfort setting. However, this means they maintain a soft spring rate even in the sport setting, only the dampers are tightened to enable a firmer ride. 2) If you want a ride closer to M stiffness, you will need to install stiffer aftermarket springs. This also affects your driving comfort. 3) A car with pleasantly soft springs (and a soft anti-roll bar) tends to roll more when cornering. ARS (Adaptive Drive) is an active system that counteracts this roll and allows the car to drive flat in corners in a sporty manner, although it is softer and more comfortable over bumps. 4) ARS has less to do with a car with an M chassis. Since it has stiffer springs and stabilizers for always sporty handling, it doesn't roll much in curves anyway. In addition, an active anti-roll system is not desirable for sporty driving, as you need feedback from a slight body inclination when driving over limits in order to be able to assess the cornering forces. The vast majority of race cars have passive (not active) anti-roll bars. 5) Experience has shown that ARS is very effective at providing a comfortable ride and staying flat even on 50 mph highway curves (which are plentiful near San Francisco). It's hard to say how much it is used at lower speeds or in the city. I 6) I bought ARS as a kind of “nice to have” and “try” feature. Since this is a hydraulic system, it may have a minor impact on fuel consumption. The hydraulics are quite reliable, but in the long term it is something mechanical that can break. Because of my knowledge and experience, I am an ARS professional...especially for cars with a high center of gravity like the X5/X6. This may be less important when driving the 5 Series around town or on straight highways. Without opposing forces, ARS can't do much. 7) Especially with RFTs, 18-wheel setups are more durable and comfortable than 19/20 setups, but many find 19/20 setups look better. Thank you for the very informative answer, Davesf. When I have to choose, I have comfort instead of stiffness. Despite the engine, the focus of this touring is more of a family car. Furthermore, due to the economic downturn, the roads in Portugal not only have increasingly poor pavement quality, they are also mostly winding and winding, with the exception of the highways of course. Therefore, I am more and more convinced to add the “Adaptive Drive” option in addition to the 18 wheels to avoid bumpy rides.
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| amoremio1 (949hp) | Quote: Originally written by Rhinosaur. Maybe Jon D already has the new car and can give us an evaluation of the system. I've been driving my 535d for 15 months or 13,000 miles and, along with the great dual turbo/sport automatic drivetrain, I consider AD/VDC to be the best feature on the car and the one I use the most. You can clearly notice the difference between the different modes - a smooth ride over rough surfaces in the "Comfort" mode and fast cornering with practically no body roll, but without violent vibrations in the "Sport" and "Sport+" modes. I drove the new M5 last week and although it was a lot of fun, I was relieved to get back into my 535d - the experience reinforced my already high opinion of this very accomplished car. I would also highly recommend the comfort seats and the adaptive bi-xenon headlights.
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| 111111j (743hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon D. I've had my 535d for 15 months/13,000 miles and, along with the great dual turbo/sport automatic drivetrain, I consider AD/VDC to be the best feature on the car and the one I use the most of all . You can clearly notice the difference between the different modes - a smooth ride over rough surfaces in the "Comfort" mode and fast cornering with practically no body roll, but without violent vibrations in the "Sport" and "Sport+" modes. I drove the new M5 last week and although it was a lot of fun, I was relieved to get back into my 535d - the experience reinforced my already high opinion of this very accomplished car. I would also highly recommend the comfort seats and the adaptive bi-xenon headlights. Thanks for the feedback, Jon! Regarding the seats: Have you also tried the sports seats? Because I tended towards the sports seats rather than the comfort seats. The latter offer sufficient lateral support when cornering, for example??
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| tootoo (858hp) | I think the multi-contour seats are part of what makes the 5 Series so luxurious. Don't give them away lightly. However, you can do without the sports car package. It doesn't change the transmission, just the aesthetics. It adds the paddle shifters on the steering wheel and changes the shape of the console shifter. I have SAT, but wouldn't order it again. The paddle shifters are simply not used on a luxury cruiser. Even without a SAT package, you can switch manually using the console switch. If you value aesthetics, purchase the CeramicControls package.
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| 21342134 (774hp) | I found that the adaptive drive and ACS springs gave me the ability to provide the feedback you would want on a race track. Excellent! The sports transmission is more than just paddle shifters, it has different hardware as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode.
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| 181082 (816hp) | Quote: Originally posted by rhinosaur Thanks for the feedback, Jon! Regarding the seats: Have you also tried the sports seats? Because I tended towards the sports seats rather than the comfort seats. Do the latter offer sufficient lateral support when cornering, for example? I haven't tried the sports seats yet so I can't comment on them, but the comfort seats have adjustable side bolsters that provide good lateral support.
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| anthony03 (743hp) | Quote: Originally posted by delvek The sport transmission is more than just paddle shifters, it has different hardware as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode. Agreed and given the low cost of this option, it can only have a positive impact on resale value.
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| dude10 (352hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon D. Quote: Originally posted by delvek. The Sport Transmission is more than just paddles, it has different hardware as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode. Agreed and given the low cost of this option, it can only have a positive impact on resale value. Very true, the cost is small compared to the full purchase price. It's important to note that even in Sport+ mode, changing to S transmission mode at the shifter still activates these shift points. These are two systems, AD and sport transmission, which are separate but work together.
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| 2brothers (143hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon DI I haven't tried the sports seats yet, so I can't comment on them, but the comfort seats have adjustable side bolsters that provide good lateral support. Agreed. Keep in mind that US cars don't get adjustable side bolsters on the 5 Series, only on the 7 Series. There has been speculation in these forums that it is due to larger average Americans. My bet is on something to do with crash safety. Regardless, there are no adjustable side bolsters on US cars. (i.e. US gets 18 way seats, not 20 way seats) Enjoy those 20 way seats in Europe, I wish I had them. Quote: The sports transmission consists of more than just paddle shifters, it has different hardware, as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode. Reference? I've seen a lot of speculation, but I haven't seen any confirmed information from BMW or ZF that the Sport Auto package will get other transmission parts or configurations. BMW's SAT description describes the paddle shifters and the alternative shift console, but makes no claims about performance differences compared to the normal transmission (carefully claiming "quick" shifts, not "faster" shifts). I've only seen confirmation from the BMW parts catalog that the 550 gets a ZF gearbox designed for higher torque than the 535/528. Likewise, I've seen speculation about SAT switching speeds, but no confirmed information. ZF's website simply states that the 8-speed transmission shifts in 200 ms. We know that Sport mode changes the rev shift points and allows manual shifting with or without SAT. Is there any confirmed information from BMW or the BMW parts catalog that SAT has a different transmission or configuration??
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| gr8brwnshark (483hp) | Quote: Originally posted by davesf Quote: Originally posted by Jon DI I haven't tried the sport seats yet, so I can't comment on them, but the comfort seats have adjustable side bolsters that provide good lateral support. Agreed. Keep in mind that US cars don't get adjustable side bolsters on the 5 Series, only on the 7 Series. There has been speculation in these forums that it is due to larger average Americans. My bet is on something to do with crash safety. Regardless, there are no adjustable side bolsters on US cars. (i.e. US gets 18 way seats, not 20 way seats) Enjoy those 20 way seats in Europe, I wish I had them. Quote: The sports transmission consists of more than just paddle shifters, it has different hardware, as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode. Reference? I've seen a lot of speculation, but I haven't seen any confirmed information from BMW or ZF that the Sport Auto package will get other transmission parts or configurations. BMW's SAT description describes the paddle shifters and the alternative shift console, but makes no claims about performance differences compared to the normal transmission (carefully claiming "quick" shifts, not "faster" shifts). I've only seen confirmation from the BMW parts catalog that the 550 gets a ZF gearbox designed for higher torque than the 535/528. Likewise, I've seen speculation about SAT switching speeds, but no confirmed information. ZF's website simply states that the 8-speed transmission shifts in 200 ms. We know that Sport mode changes the rev shift points and allows manual shifting with or without SAT. Is there any confirmed information from BMW or the BMW parts catalog that SAT has a different transmission or configuration? I can't use the search function with the iPhone app, but that was discussed in detail when the f10 first came out and we've all discussed the options etc here. I'm not a tech buff, but there's a post here that illustrates the differences. Also, I believe S mode for the transmission is only available on the Sport Auto.
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| Ryan(e92) (794hp) | You can also see the difference in S mode: the characteristics of the transmission change noticeably as the shift points are adjusted and maintained.
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| 090488 (51hp) | Today I test drove a 535d 299 HP Touring with the M package and 19 wheels. THE CAR IS BRILLIANT! I didn't want to drive much faster than 200 km/h since the TD car had summer tires, and I didn't choose an aggressive driving style either, I didn't want to break the car! After today, I will definitely not ignore the adaptive drive. The way the car changes its behavior when you switch between Comfort, Normal or Sport/Sport+ modes is just fantastic! And the chassis is so incredibly reactive! Suddenly my E60 seems like a boat when attacking tight corners or small roundabouts. LOL I was also impressed by the absolute silence on board even though I was driving at high speed with the glass roof open. However, I wasn't particularly impressed with the lane change warning system (I don't know the exact name) or the speed limit detection as it didn't recognize all the speed limit signs as I drove past.
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| 111100 (986hp) | Quote: Originally written by rhinosaur Today I test drove a 535d 299 HP Touring with the M package and 19 wheels. THE CAR IS AWESOME! I told you, I'm glad you liked it.
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| champagne (697hp) | Quote: Originally written by delvek I'm not a tech expert, but there's a post here that illustrates the differences. Also, I believe S mode for the transmission is only available on the Sport Auto. A vehicle without SAT equipment still gets S mode and manual shifting by moving the shift lever to the left. I've seen the speculation threads about the SAT, but nothing I've seen contained confirmed information, just speculation. It would be interesting to see some confirmed information. My car has SAT and it doesn't seem to be any different from the test drives without SAT (except of course the aesthetics of the paddle shifters and the SAT center shifter). I don't have a strong opinion on which center shifter I like better, and I think I'd prefer the car without steering wheel paddles since I don't use them (although it's fine either way). I mean, it's fine to have the SAT, but I would recommend people get Nappa or ceramic controls before spending on the SAT (I have both too and like them better than the paddles).).
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| homeless1 (957hp) | I feel a noticeable difference between my 550i with 2TB (Sport Auto) and the F10 I drove without. There is a lot of muddy water with precise differences and you can read on both sides of the fence all day long. That said, you also get a much more attractive leather gearshift lever and the paddle shifters, which are a functional bonus in the Sport+ by allowing you to manually shift into 8th gear. I think the key point is that the car isn't cheap and for another pound or so, who cares? For probably one of the better posts on this from the archives, I'll also post this one: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416668
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| 111111111a (153hp) | Quote: Originally written by davesf. A car without SAT equipment still gets S mode and manual shifting by moving the shifter to the left. I've seen the speculation threads about the SAT, but nothing I've seen contained confirmed information, just speculation. It would be interesting to see some confirmed information. My car has SAT and it doesn't seem to be any different from the test drives without SAT (except of course the aesthetics of the paddle shifters and the SAT center shifter). I don't have a strong opinion on which center shifter I like better, and I think I'd prefer the car without steering wheel paddles since I don't use them (although it's fine either way). I mean, it's fine to have the SAT, but I would recommend people get Nappa or ceramic controls before spending on the SAT (I have both too and like them better than the paddles). In general automatic mode there is no difference when the car is in its normal modes. But the look of the SAT shifter and the proper paddle shifters really make for a good experience. The SAT (at least on the E60) has 6 modes compared to the standard 3: Auto, Sport and Manual. With SAT you have the option of a sport button in the center console, which significantly changes the driving dynamics of the vehicle. The ARS becomes narrower, the throttle response changes, and the switching points in particular differ significantly. The car turns into a completely different animal. The best part is that the shifts are very close to a DCT with SAT, very quick and a bit abrupt for a 1-2 gear, which feels nice and cool. In the E60 the transmission already has these modes, but with SAT you can basically force them, and in the normal boxes the computer automatically chooses to drive the Xtreme Economy program. Sorry if this is just a bunch of clutter to some (I know I didn't understand exactly what I typed), but I get annoyed with those who say SAT doesn't make a difference. It does. For F10 If it's still not clear, think of 2TB as a FIRM/SOFT switch on the stabilizers. ZDH is a FIRM/SOFT switch on the sway bars AND the dampers with an electronic brain behind it that allows this to happen on the fly and depending on road conditions. That's why one is $500 and the other is $2,700, which pretty much sums up the thread posted above. This also applies without the dampers of the E60. The car becomes absolutely stable in the M-Sport setup with SAT On. There's still some give in the first 5%, so it's not as breakneck as the E92 Sport
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| 56789 (787hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon DI drove the new M5 last week and although it was a lot of fun, I was relieved to get back into my 535d - the experience reinforced my already high opinion of this very accomplished car. Hi Jon, I'm very interested to hear that you've tried the new M5 and would be grateful if you could provide a review/comparison with your 535d with Adaptive Drive? Obviously mainly in terms of suspension, handling and ride quality. Thanks, David
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| blackops1 (619hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Cookiesowns Quote: Originally posted by davesf A non-SAT equipped car still gets S mode and manual shifting by moving the shifter to the left. I've seen the speculation threads about the SAT, but nothing I've seen contained confirmed information, just speculation. It would be interesting to see some confirmed information. My car has SAT and it doesn't seem to be any different from the test drives without SAT (except of course the aesthetics of the paddle shifters and the SAT center shifter). I don't have a strong opinion on which center shifter I like better, and I think I'd prefer the car without steering wheel paddles since I don't use them (although it's fine either way). I mean, it's fine to have the SAT, but I would recommend people get Nappa or ceramic controls before spending on the SAT (I have both too and like them better than the paddles). In general automatic mode there is no difference when the car is in its normal modes. But the look of the SAT shifter and the proper paddle shifters really make for a good experience. The SAT (at least on the E60) has 6 modes compared to the standard 3: Auto, Sport and Manual. With SAT you have the option of a sport button in the center console, which significantly changes the driving dynamics of the vehicle. The ARS becomes narrower, the throttle response changes, and the switching points in particular differ significantly. The car turns into a completely different animal. The best part is that the shifts are very close to a DCT with SAT, very quick and a bit abrupt for a 1-2 gear, which feels nice and cool. On the E60 the gearbox already has these modes, but with SAT you can basically force them, and on the normal boxes the computer automatically selects the program from Xtreme Economy to Sorry if this is just a bunch of clutter for some (I know , that I didn't understand exactly what I typed), but I get annoyed with those who say SAT doesn't make a difference. It does. For F10 If it's still not clear, think of 2TB as a FIRM/SOFT switch on the stabilizers. ZDH is a FIRM/SOFT switch on the sway bars AND the dampers with an electronic brain behind it that allows this to happen on the fly and depending on road conditions. That's why one is $500 and the other is $2,700, which pretty much sums up the thread posted above. This also applies without the dampers of the E60. The car becomes absolutely stable in the M-Sport setup with SAT On. Still has some give in the first 5% or so, so it's not as breakneck as the E92 Sport. This is all wrong for the F10.
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| 170485 (441hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon D 3. Although driving dynamics are listed separately, they are not available without adaptive drive. It is only available with Sport Auto, but the rocker switch only has Normal, Sport and Sport+. Only DDC and/or Dynamic Drive have a comfort setting.
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| timking85 (977hp) | Good morning guys. I'm thinking about ordering the 5 series too, and I'm thinking about ordering a dynamic drive. It's quite expensive here and I wouldn't mind saving the money. The problem is that all 5 Series are available from dealers with adaptive drive. I asked them to test drive one without one, but they said they didn't have one without one. I remember driving the E60 M with 18 alloy wheels and for me that was a great combination of sport and comfort. With that in mind, I suspect the F10 standard would be perfectly fine (less comfort) but good enough. I am in doubt.
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| iluvme! (829hp) | Hello everyone! I'm in the process of ordering a 535d Touring with the M Sport package (among other things). However, I'm in the final configuration phase where you're wondering whether adding this other thing makes a difference or not. I'm wondering if you could give me some insight into whether it's really worth adding the Adaptive Drive option or not. So far I have only installed the Dynamic Dampening Control, but not the Adaptive Drive. Would it make a big difference? What are the benefits of this? I expect the car's cornering behavior to improve, but will it be noticeable enough? For example, does it also help to avoid uneven tire wear? Will it only become noticeable when you really demand a lot from the car, or is it the same as if you don't have it for the most part and are a relaxed driver? The price difference is about +2,300 EUR if I add it or leave my configuration as is (i.e. with the dynamic damping control). By the way, my current reference point is a 530d E60 with normal suspension and 18 M135 wheels. In my opinion it has a bit too much roll and pitch, but it's definitely comfortable! Maybe Jon D already has the new car and can give us a test report on the system. Thanks!
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| fathima (962hp) | My US 550xi has 19 wheels, Dynamic Damper Control (in the US with Sport) and Active Roll Stabilization (which I think is the US term for Adaptive Drive). Here is my experience and research based theory on these features... AFAIK... 1) DDC only controls the damper rate, not the spring rate. DDC-equipped vehicles have a softer spring rate than M-suspension vehicles because they require this for a soft spring comfort setting. However, this means they maintain a soft spring rate even in the sport setting, only the dampers are tightened to enable a firmer ride. 2) If you want a ride closer to M stiffness, you will need to install stiffer aftermarket springs. This also affects your driving comfort. 3) A car with pleasantly soft springs (and a soft anti-roll bar) tends to roll more when cornering. ARS (Adaptive Drive) is an active system that counteracts this roll and allows the car to drive flat in corners in a sporty manner, although it is softer and more comfortable over bumps. 4) ARS has less to do with a car with an M chassis. Since it has stiffer springs and stabilizers for always sporty handling, it doesn't roll much in curves anyway. In addition, an active anti-roll system is not desirable for sporty driving, as you need feedback from a slight body inclination when driving over limits in order to be able to assess the cornering forces. The vast majority of race cars have passive (not active) anti-roll bars. 5) Experience has shown that ARS is very effective at providing a comfortable ride and staying flat even on 50 mph highway curves (which are plentiful near San Francisco). It's hard to say how much it is used at lower speeds or in the city. I 6) I bought ARS as a kind of “nice to have” and “try” feature. Since this is a hydraulic system, it may have a minor impact on fuel consumption. The hydraulics are quite reliable, but in the long term it is something mechanical that can break. Because of my knowledge and experience, I am an ARS professional...especially for cars with a high center of gravity like the X5/X6. This may be less important when driving the 5 Series around town or on straight highways. Without opposing forces, ARS can't do much. 7) Especially with RFTs, 18-wheel setups are more durable and comfortable than 19/20 setups, but many find 19/20 setups look better.
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| 123asd456 (21hp) | Quote: Originally posted by davesf My US 550xi has 19 wheels, Dynamic Damper Control (in the US it comes with Sport) and Active Roll Stabilization (which I think is the US term for Adaptive Drive). Here is my experience and research based theory on these features... AFAIK... 1) DDC only controls the damper rate, not the spring rate. DDC-equipped vehicles have a softer spring rate than M-suspension vehicles because they require this for a soft spring comfort setting. However, this means they maintain a soft spring rate even in the sport setting, only the dampers are tightened to enable a firmer ride. 2) If you want a ride closer to M stiffness, you will need to install stiffer aftermarket springs. This also affects your driving comfort. 3) A car with pleasantly soft springs (and a soft anti-roll bar) tends to roll more when cornering. ARS (Adaptive Drive) is an active system that counteracts this roll and allows the car to drive flat in corners in a sporty manner, although it is softer and more comfortable over bumps. 4) ARS has less to do with a car with an M chassis. Since it has stiffer springs and stabilizers for always sporty handling, it doesn't roll much in curves anyway. In addition, an active anti-roll system is not desirable for sporty driving, as you need feedback from a slight body inclination when driving over limits in order to be able to assess the cornering forces. The vast majority of race cars have passive (not active) anti-roll bars. 5) Experience has shown that ARS is very effective at providing a comfortable ride and staying flat even on 50 mph highway curves (which are plentiful near San Francisco). It's hard to say how much it is used at lower speeds or in the city. I 6) I bought ARS as a kind of “nice to have” and “try” feature. Since this is a hydraulic system, it may have a minor impact on fuel consumption. The hydraulics are quite reliable, but in the long term it is something mechanical that can break. Because of my knowledge and experience, I am an ARS professional...especially for cars with a high center of gravity like the X5/X6. This may be less important when driving the 5 Series around town or on straight highways. Without opposing forces, ARS can't do much. 7) Especially with RFTs, 18-wheel setups are more durable and comfortable than 19/20 setups, but many find 19/20 setups look better. Thank you for the very informative answer, Davesf. When I have to choose, I have comfort instead of stiffness. Despite the engine, the focus of this touring is more of a family car. Furthermore, due to the economic downturn, the roads in Portugal not only have increasingly poor pavement quality, they are also mostly winding and winding, with the exception of the highways of course. Therefore, I am more and more convinced to add the “Adaptive Drive” option in addition to the 18 wheels to avoid bumpy rides.
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| 06051988 (164hp) | Quote: Originally written by Rhinosaur. Maybe Jon D already has the new car and can give us an evaluation of the system. I've been driving my 535d for 15 months or 13,000 miles and, along with the great dual turbo/sport automatic drivetrain, I consider AD/VDC to be the best feature on the car and the one I use the most. You can clearly notice the difference between the different modes - a smooth ride over rough surfaces in the "Comfort" mode and fast cornering with practically no body roll, but without violent vibrations in the "Sport" and "Sport+" modes. I drove the new M5 last week and although it was a lot of fun, I was relieved to get back into my 535d - the experience reinforced my already high opinion of this very accomplished car. I would also highly recommend the comfort seats and the adaptive bi-xenon headlights.
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| cuppycake1 (249hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon D. I've had my 535d for 15 months/13,000 miles and, along with the great dual turbo/sport automatic drivetrain, I consider AD/VDC to be the best feature on the car and the one I use the most of all . You can clearly notice the difference between the different modes - a smooth ride over rough surfaces in the "Comfort" mode and fast cornering with practically no body roll, but without violent vibrations in the "Sport" and "Sport+" modes. I drove the new M5 last week and although it was a lot of fun, I was relieved to get back into my 535d - the experience reinforced my already high opinion of this very accomplished car. I would also highly recommend the comfort seats and the adaptive bi-xenon headlights. Thanks for the feedback, Jon! Regarding the seats: Have you also tried the sports seats? Because I tended towards the sports seats rather than the comfort seats. The latter offer sufficient lateral support when cornering, for example??
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| ania (369hp) | I think the multi-contour seats are part of what makes the 5 Series so luxurious. Don't give them away lightly. However, you can do without the sports car package. It doesn't change the transmission, just the aesthetics. It adds the paddle shifters on the steering wheel and changes the shape of the console shifter. I have SAT, but wouldn't order it again. The paddle shifters are simply not used on a luxury cruiser. Even without a SAT package, you can switch manually using the console switch. If you value aesthetics, purchase the CeramicControls package.
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| 1rabbit (429hp) | I found that the adaptive drive and ACS springs gave me the ability to provide the feedback you would want on a race track. Excellent! The sports transmission is more than just paddle shifters, it has different hardware as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode.
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| Wicewolf (21hp) | Quote: Originally posted by rhinosaur Thanks for the feedback, Jon! Regarding the seats: Have you also tried the sports seats? Because I tended towards the sports seats rather than the comfort seats. Do the latter offer sufficient lateral support when cornering, for example? I haven't tried the sports seats yet so I can't comment on them, but the comfort seats have adjustable side bolsters that provide good lateral support.
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| pinoyako (880hp) | Quote: Originally posted by delvek The sport transmission is more than just paddle shifters, it has different hardware as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode. Agreed and given the low cost of this option, it can only have a positive impact on resale value.
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| thinkpad (228hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon D. Quote: Originally posted by delvek. The Sport Transmission is more than just paddles, it has different hardware as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode. Agreed and given the low cost of this option, it can only have a positive impact on resale value. Very true, the cost is small compared to the full purchase price. It's important to note that even in Sport+ mode, changing to S transmission mode at the shifter still activates these shift points. These are two systems, AD and sport transmission, which are separate but work together.
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| 18041993 (998hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon DI I haven't tried the sports seats yet, so I can't comment on them, but the comfort seats have adjustable side bolsters that provide good lateral support. Agreed. Keep in mind that US cars don't get adjustable side bolsters on the 5 Series, only on the 7 Series. There has been speculation in these forums that it is due to larger average Americans. My bet is on something to do with crash safety. Regardless, there are no adjustable side bolsters on US cars. (i.e. US gets 18 way seats, not 20 way seats) Enjoy those 20 way seats in Europe, I wish I had them. Quote: The sports transmission consists of more than just paddle shifters, it has different hardware, as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode. Reference? I've seen a lot of speculation, but I haven't seen any confirmed information from BMW or ZF that the Sport Auto package will get other transmission parts or configurations. BMW's SAT description describes the paddle shifters and the alternative shift console, but makes no claims about performance differences compared to the normal transmission (carefully claiming "quick" shifts, not "faster" shifts). I've only seen confirmation from the BMW parts catalog that the 550 gets a ZF gearbox designed for higher torque than the 535/528. Likewise, I've seen speculation about SAT switching speeds, but no confirmed information. ZF's website simply states that the 8-speed transmission shifts in 200 ms. We know that Sport mode changes the rev shift points and allows manual shifting with or without SAT. Is there any confirmed information from BMW or the BMW parts catalog that SAT has a different transmission or configuration??
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| mansion (733hp) | Quote: Originally posted by davesf Quote: Originally posted by Jon DI I haven't tried the sport seats yet, so I can't comment on them, but the comfort seats have adjustable side bolsters that provide good lateral support. Agreed. Keep in mind that US cars don't get adjustable side bolsters on the 5 Series, only on the 7 Series. There has been speculation in these forums that it is due to larger average Americans. My bet is on something to do with crash safety. Regardless, there are no adjustable side bolsters on US cars. (i.e. US gets 18 way seats, not 20 way seats) Enjoy those 20 way seats in Europe, I wish I had them. Quote: The sports transmission consists of more than just paddle shifters, it has different hardware, as discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The switching speeds are different in S sport mode. Reference? I've seen a lot of speculation, but I haven't seen any confirmed information from BMW or ZF that the Sport Auto package will get other transmission parts or configurations. BMW's SAT description describes the paddle shifters and the alternative shift console, but makes no claims about performance differences compared to the normal transmission (carefully claiming "quick" shifts, not "faster" shifts). I've only seen confirmation from the BMW parts catalog that the 550 gets a ZF gearbox designed for higher torque than the 535/528. Likewise, I've seen speculation about SAT switching speeds, but no confirmed information. ZF's website simply states that the 8-speed transmission shifts in 200 ms. We know that Sport mode changes the rev shift points and allows manual shifting with or without SAT. Is there any confirmed information from BMW or the BMW parts catalog that SAT has a different transmission or configuration? I can't use the search function with the iPhone app, but that was discussed in detail when the f10 first came out and we've all discussed the options etc here. I'm not a tech buff, but there's a post here that illustrates the differences. Also, I believe S mode for the transmission is only available on the Sport Auto.
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| martinko (385hp) | You can also see the difference in S mode: the characteristics of the transmission change noticeably as the shift points are adjusted and maintained.
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| 180586 (666hp) | Today I test drove a 535d 299 HP Touring with the M package and 19 wheels. THE CAR IS BRILLIANT! I didn't want to drive much faster than 200 km/h since the TD car had summer tires, and I didn't choose an aggressive driving style either, I didn't want to break the car! After today, I will definitely not ignore the adaptive drive. The way the car changes its behavior when you switch between Comfort, Normal or Sport/Sport+ modes is just fantastic! And the chassis is so incredibly reactive! Suddenly my E60 seems like a boat when attacking tight corners or small roundabouts. LOL I was also impressed by the absolute silence on board even though I was driving at high speed with the glass roof open. However, I wasn't particularly impressed with the lane change warning system (I don't know the exact name) or the speed limit detection as it didn't recognize all the speed limit signs as I drove past.
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| charter (939hp) | Quote: Originally written by rhinosaur Today I test drove a 535d 299 HP Touring with the M package and 19 wheels. THE CAR IS AWESOME! I told you, I'm glad you liked it.
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| 2305 (924hp) | Quote: Originally written by delvek I'm not a tech expert, but there's a post here that illustrates the differences. Also, I believe S mode for the transmission is only available on the Sport Auto. A vehicle without SAT equipment still gets S mode and manual shifting by moving the shift lever to the left. I've seen the speculation threads about the SAT, but nothing I've seen contained confirmed information, just speculation. It would be interesting to see some confirmed information. My car has SAT and it doesn't seem to be any different from the test drives without SAT (except of course the aesthetics of the paddle shifters and the SAT center shifter). I don't have a strong opinion on which center shifter I like better, and I think I'd prefer the car without steering wheel paddles since I don't use them (although it's fine either way). I mean, it's fine to have the SAT, but I would recommend people get Nappa or ceramic controls before spending on the SAT (I have both too and like them better than the paddles).).
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| kralchev_i (567hp) | I feel a noticeable difference between my 550i with 2TB (Sport Auto) and the F10 I drove without. There is a lot of muddy water with precise differences and you can read on both sides of the fence all day long. That said, you also get a much more attractive leather gearshift lever and the paddle shifters, which are a functional bonus in the Sport+ by allowing you to manually shift into 8th gear. I think the key point is that the car isn't cheap and for another pound or so, who cares? For probably one of the better posts on this from the archives, I'll also post this one: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416668
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| leah (208hp) | Quote: Originally written by davesf. A car without SAT equipment still gets S mode and manual shifting by moving the shifter to the left. I've seen the speculation threads about the SAT, but nothing I've seen contained confirmed information, just speculation. It would be interesting to see some confirmed information. My car has SAT and it doesn't seem to be any different from the test drives without SAT (except of course the aesthetics of the paddle shifters and the SAT center shifter). I don't have a strong opinion on which center shifter I like better, and I think I'd prefer the car without steering wheel paddles since I don't use them (although it's fine either way). I mean, it's fine to have the SAT, but I would recommend people get Nappa or ceramic controls before spending on the SAT (I have both too and like them better than the paddles). In general automatic mode there is no difference when the car is in its normal modes. But the look of the SAT shifter and the proper paddle shifters really make for a good experience. The SAT (at least on the E60) has 6 modes compared to the standard 3: Auto, Sport and Manual. With SAT you have the option of a sport button in the center console, which significantly changes the driving dynamics of the vehicle. The ARS becomes narrower, the throttle response changes, and the switching points in particular differ significantly. The car turns into a completely different animal. The best part is that the shifts are very close to a DCT with SAT, very quick and a bit abrupt for a 1-2 gear, which feels nice and cool. On the E60 the gearbox already has these modes, but with SAT you can basically force them, and on the normal boxes the computer automatically selects the program from Xtreme Economy to Sorry if this is just a bunch of clutter for some (I know , that I didn't understand exactly what I typed), but I get annoyed with those who say SAT doesn't make a difference. It does. For F10 If it's still not clear, think of 2TB as a FIRM/SOFT switch on the stabilizers. ZDH is a FIRM/SOFT switch on the sway bars AND the dampers with an electronic brain behind it that allows this to happen on the fly and depending on road conditions. That's why one is $500 and the other is $2,700, which pretty much sums up the thread posted above. This also applies without the dampers of the E60. The car becomes absolutely stable in the M-Sport setup with SAT On. There's still some give in the first 5%, so it's not as breakneck as the E92 Sport
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| lbvekmrf (204hp) | Quote: Originally written by Jon DI drove the new M5 last week and although it was a lot of fun, I was relieved to get back into my 535d - the experience reinforced my already high opinion of this very accomplished car. Hi Jon, I'm very interested to hear that you've tried the new M5 and would be grateful if you could provide a review/comparison with your 535d with Adaptive Drive? Obviously mainly in terms of suspension, handling and ride quality. Thanks, David
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| barney01 (163hp) | Quote: Originally posted by Cookiesowns Quote: Originally posted by davesf A non-SAT equipped car still gets S mode and manual shifting by moving the shifter to the left. I've seen the speculation threads about the SAT, but nothing I've seen contained confirmed information, just speculation. It would be interesting to see some confirmed information. My car has SAT and it doesn't seem to be any different from the test drives without SAT (except of course the aesthetics of the paddle shifters and the SAT center shifter). I don't have a strong opinion on which center shifter I like better, and I think I'd prefer the car without steering wheel paddles since I don't use them (although it's fine either way). I mean, it's fine to have the SAT, but I would recommend people get Nappa or ceramic controls before spending on the SAT (I have both too and like them better than the paddles). In general automatic mode there is no difference when the car is in its normal modes. But the look of the SAT shifter and the proper paddle shifters really make for a good experience. The SAT (at least on the E60) has 6 modes compared to the standard 3: Auto, Sport and Manual. With SAT you have the option of a sport button in the center console, which significantly changes the driving dynamics of the vehicle. The ARS becomes narrower, the throttle response changes, and the switching points in particular differ significantly. The car turns into a completely different animal. The best part is that the shifts are very close to a DCT with SAT, very quick and a bit abrupt for a 1-2 gear, which feels nice and cool. In the E60 the transmission already has these modes, but with SAT you can basically force them, and in the normal boxes the computer automatically chooses to drive the Xtreme Economy program. Sorry if this is just a bunch of clutter to some (I know I didn't understand exactly what I typed), but I get annoyed with those who say SAT doesn't make a difference. It does. For F10 If it's still not clear, think of 2TB as a FIRM/SOFT switch on the stabilizers. ZDH is a FIRM/SOFT switch on the sway bars AND the dampers with an electronic brain behind it that allows this to happen on the fly and depending on road conditions. That's why one is $500 and the other is $2,700, which pretty much sums up the thread posted above. This also applies without the dampers of the E60. The car becomes absolutely stable in the M-Sport setup with SAT On. Still has some give in the first 5% or so, so it's not as breakneck as the E92 Sport. This is all wrong for the F10.
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| 15031996 (841hp) | Okay, dear forum members, I need your help. I've already talked about this, but I'm having some problems with the order. So I'm trying to order a pair of M5 carbon fiber side skirt extensions. Now the seller tells me they have to be M5 skirts otherwise they won't fit. I remember discussing this with Valbmw at the time and we both confirmed with the BMW part numbers that there were only two types of skirts... Msport/M5 and non-M. But not, I get mixed answers. For those of you who already have the carbon fiber skirt extensions, could you reach out if you have any issues with your skirt extensions not fitting? I did a little research and now I've come to the conclusion that the M5 skirts are a little more aggressive (more flared) than the Msport skirts? I can't confirm this unless those of you who have experienced this could come forward! I would be very happy about that because if that's true, I don't want to order the wrong skirts. The sellers actually cannot confirm whether the Msport skirts are the same as the M5 and will not make models to confirm. So here's the Msport skirt, as I can tell it's not an M5 based on the side markings: And here's the M5 side skirt: They look identical to me, unless you can confirm otherwise??
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| 270782 (511hp) | I'm starting to realize that the sales people out there have no idea about our cars! Tell me I'm wrong, but the 2011-2016 side skirts fit any F10 series, M5 or not, right? Thank you for contacting us. We are sorry, this item only fits BMW F10 M5 2012-2016 and only suitable for OEM M5 bumpers! It does not fit 2011 models. Sorry for the inconveniences. If you have any further questions, please email us so we can best help you. Thank you, Account Representative -Ida
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| thinking1 (321hp) | I checked the parts catalog. F10 M Sport door sill, primed, left: 51 77 8 048 685 F10 M Sport door sill, primed, right: 51 77 8 048 686 F10 M5 door sill, primed, left: 51 77 8 048 685 F10 M5 door sill cover, primed, right: 51 77 8 048 686 Valid for F10 LCI and earlier.
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| vannyhuj (494hp) | So I finally got confirmation from another forum member when he took his carbon side skirt extensions off his F10 msport and transferred them to his new M5
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