From the author: Success and leadership, the desire to be first in everything - they talk about this from TV screens and monitors, the press, radio and advertising shout about it, in every possible way encouraging us to join the race and succeed. What do people who have already achieved success think about the struggle for a place in the sun? How to live well, enjoying what you do? Paradoxes of leadership Singer and businesswoman Lina Milovich, lawyer Alexander Dobrovinsky and psychologist and coach Alexander Kichaev talk about whether it is important to strive to be the first in everything, and whether success is always achieved in a tough struggle for a place in the sun. Psychologist: The topic of our conversation is “Being first.” Sometimes people equate the concepts of “being successful” and “being first.” If you are not the first, not the “best”, you are not successful. In your opinion, is this a fair judgment? And do you think this is necessary in principle - to strive to be the first? Alexander: You know, I never thought about it. Giving out numbers has never interested me, it’s not typical for me. I saw leaders around me - of course, they exist. I believe that it is rather from God - given or not given. You can want this, but never achieve it. Lina: I think this is some kind of biological feature. Animals have leadership. In order to survive, you must have certain properties. And individuals who want to increase this survival rate take advantage of the opportunities that nature has given them. It always worked out for me that I wasn’t competing with anyone. Individuality attracts me much more than participation in competitions. Alexander: What does it mean to “be first”? Hard to say. This only happens in sports. In general, I believe that there is no “number 1” as such - it’s all transitory. I was always interested in something else - to feel good by doing what gives you pleasure, and absolutely nothing else. If you do what you like, if you get a thrill from it - in absolutely any field, then you enjoy going to work, communicating with people, playing sports, eating, and so on. And then, by doing what you like, you can achieve something. And you are first, second, 27th, 35th - it doesn’t matter at all. Lina: I agree 100%. I subscribe to every word. Alexander: Everything I do, I do to have fun. If I worked and didn't have fun, I wouldn't work where I work. And I wouldn’t collect collections. And I wouldn't date women. And I wouldn’t go on vacation where I go. I've been trying to live like this since childhood. Psychologist: Is collecting a hobby for you? Alexander: I consider myself a professional collector. To be honest, I don’t even know what my hobby is – being a lawyer or a collector. Yes, this is not significant. Is being a father a hobby or a profession? I can't say either. Psychologist: But do you enjoy being one? Alexander: I also enjoy teaching. Not a profession at all, but I like to explain. If you call something that brings in money a profession, that’s a separate issue. We can talk about this. And being a father... The profession of a father does not bring money, but it gives pleasure. Psychologist: Do you raise your children the same way - so that they enjoy what they do? Or do you instill in them some leadership qualities so that they strive to become the best, the first? Alexander: I don’t instill anything in them. That part of life that I have already lived, which is behind me (I hope, small) - it was interesting, full of all sorts of things. And I would like, like any father, for my children to live life and also have fun. Therefore, I rather lead them to this. In a nutshell: I try to teach them to live well, enjoying what they do - then, of course, they will succeed in their endeavors without causing displeasure to others. It is important. Psychologist: Lina, you are a singer and do business. What forWhat's your hobby, what's your job? Lina: Neither one nor the other is a hobby or a job. Both are life after all. By the way, I don’t like the word “business”. It seems to me that it is a little dry and leveling. I would say: I go to work. Because I do what interests me there. Psychologist: So you also get pleasure? Lina: Of course. A person has a certain need to prove himself and earn money. And it seems to me that being independent is important for a person. I chose a path that is undoubtedly very interesting to me. So I can't say if it's a hobby or something else. Psychologist: Are you talking about music now? Lina: No, I'm talking about work. And music is a great pleasure that pays dividends. Music is a derivative of me. I am a composer and writer of poetry - I write music and sing. Psychologist: Is your musical activity successful if we look at it from a business point of view? is it profitable? Lina: Whenever. Sometimes the costs are higher, and sometimes there is a parish that covers them. In this regard, I am more independent than artists who do only this, because I am also involved in business. I do this during the day, and in the evening I do music. Psychologist: Both the Swede and the Reaper. One of the founders of the Moscow Art Theater, Stanislavsky, was engaged in business, and yet he realized himself in art. Does this model of relationships between two aspects of a talented personality resemble yours, or do you have a different story? Lina: I, Milovich, am a person in myself, who has different incarnations. One of them is music, through which I express myself. I suppose that there are two parts of me - a split into two persons who sometimes function together, sometimes separately. Thank God that the part that works at work very well provides the managerial component of my musical activity and allows me to understand where to go, in what direction. In work, it is important to understand the direction and trends. Psychologist: I agree. “No wind will be fair if you don’t know where to sail.” What do you think has not been done yet? Do you have a dream that needs to be realized? Lina: a lot! You can say that I haven’t even started yet. Psychologist: What? The best? Lina: I have not yet started the concert activity that would give me pleasure today. I’m not talking about the size of the audience, not about the number of people, but about the kind of concert activity that I would like, about the quality of my program. Different music, done differently, different me. Psychologist: Is this the most significant goal for you now? Lina: For me, the most significant goal is to make a program that I like today. Psychologist: And so that the songs become hits? Lina: The songs become hits themselves. Psychologist: But sometimes this requires effort. Lina: No. You know, I was amazed - recently skaters were skating to my music, I didn’t even know about it. My friends told me. I was sitting in the theater, I began to receive a wild number of letters... it turns out that all the decent people in my circle watch “Ice Age” on Channel One in prime time. And it turns out that they skate there to my song “fly,” which I, of course, really like. Moreover, the skaters practically staged the words of the song - they said that they would try to convey this flight. And they won! I think this is very cool. I was pleased. For me this is an assessment. Professionals always choose the song that will show them in the best light. Therefore, there is no need to make any effort - if the thing is true, it will break through. Alexander: In this regard, the composer and singer are, of course, lucky. Otherwise you say a wise thought, but it is immediately stolen. You then hear from someone else and think: what a brute, repeating after me. Lina: And for the composer, everyone repeats his music. Or they say that he repeated someone else. This is another story. I have a normal attitude towards this. Psychologist: Lina, who is your “own” audience? Lina: Everyone who feels. My songs are designed for today. It's hard for me to push my music, I think. Money has nothing to do with it, she justa little non-standard. I would like to sing to people who can both feel and think. I would like to sing to smart people. I don’t claim to be the ultimate truth, but it seems to me that there are more feelers than thinkers. I love all my viewers. Very. I have a huge range of audiences. My listeners are among children, adults, among the elderly, among young people... They write to me, call me, and invite me to different cities. Another thing is that I don’t go on tours, I don’t sing at custom concerts. Psychologist: Out of principle? Lina: This has nothing to do with ideology. No time. I sing, but very selectively. I'm very busy at my main job. I work in partnership, not alone – with people. I cannot tell them at the moment when I am needed that I have my own affairs. Otherwise, they will treat me the same way. Psychologist: Alexander, who are your clients? How do you choose them? Alexander: It's very simple. First: I will never undertake to defend a pedophile - due to the fact that I myself have children. Second: I will never undertake to defend a lost cause at any price. Psychologist: So that your reputation does not suffer? Alexander: Yes. And I don’t take on cases where a broker is needed, not a lawyer. I need yoga for my brain. This is the most interesting thing. Psychologist: When winning a case, do you, voluntarily or unwittingly, acquire enemies in the person of the losing side? Alexander: I came across one very smart person, he was in the Forbes top ten, against whom I had to fight for other clients. That side lost. And when everyone made peace, everything became fine, he came up to me and said: “We have finished this case, I ask you, be my lawyer.” Psychologist: While reading materials about you, I saw a lot of angry and unflattering remarks. They label you “devil’s advocate”, “lawyer who doesn’t shake hands” and the like. Alexander: This is a big plus. “A man can do anything,” this is Woland... “The Devil’s Advocate” is a big compliment; a greater compliment cannot be given to a lawyer. But those who write like this are legally virgin people - they simply don’t understand what we’re talking about: who is the devil’s advocate? A devil who cannot defend himself at some trial?! he cannot do anything, he comes to the lawyer and says: “I am the devil, help me.” Man is more creative than the devil! What a mind! There is no higher compliment than this. People who think it's an insult are actually giving it a compliment. And as for the “handshake” - what else remains for people who miserably lost the process? Lina: I believe that if we have a figure, a personality that attracts attention with its scale... Psychologist: ...for some this causes anger and irritation. Lina: ...causes terrible envy and a desire to scream. Alexander: And everywhere, in all areas. Lina: I went through this myself - at a certain moment it is unpleasant, and then it works for you. This is PR. Alexander: golden words! There is no bad PR. Psychologist: Do people envy you a lot? And if so, why? Lina: I try not to think about it. I guess so. Psychologist: Have you encountered any intrigues, “set-ups”, or intrigues? Lina: I don’t deal with this much. Since I am an individualist, I try to sit in an ivory tower whenever possible, to be honest. To somehow save your space. Psychologist: Alexander, what about your plans and projects? Alexander: There are many – I can’t even list them all. They are born every day. Psychologist: Is there anything most significant? Alexander: There is no such thing. I don’t know... I had a dream, it collapsed, thank God! Psychologist: What is this? Alexander: Retire. I left three times - the last time I left firmly. Psychologist: The case wasn’t released? Alexander: A month later I wanted to hang myself. It's insanely boring. Psychologist: And even collecting didn't help? Alexander: I took the clubs that I adore, I thought that I would go now, play golf, read... I took the clubs and threw them so far! I returned to the office, a secretary with a good figure came, brought coffee, a newspaper... Then clients began to come, calls, I began to be late for somewhere, traffic jams, parties - and everything started all over again. Lina:I had to go on vacation on time. It's just disorganization! Psychologist: How do you assess the role of money in your life? Does money “smell” to you? Alexander: They smell. I have never made money illegally, so it always smells pretty good. What I do, in any country where I live, is in accordance with the law. Money is a system of exchange. When there are more of them, you have more opportunities to learn, read, watch, enjoy, do a lot of things. Good, kind - depending on you. Therefore, this is, of course, some degree of freedom, of course. I don't think a person shouldn't strive to be rich. Because striving to be rich is good. good to live good. Anyone who says that happiness is in poverty, let him remain there. Because he's lying. Lina: I am very respectful of money. It really is the equivalent. Money cannot be treated as some kind of substance; it was invented in order to have some opportunities. They can be exchanged for anything you need. Whoever they go to is who they become. Someone, by the way, blows them away in one second; they are nothing to him. Psychologist: And for you? Lina: For me this is also freedom. very simple things - it seems to me that there is no need to philosophize here. With money you can buy beautiful clothes. I am a woman, I love beautiful clothes, having my hair done by good hairdressers, I love looking at something beautiful. I like to buy good equipment for my creativity so that my music sounds beautiful. Psychologist: Alexander, do you regret anything in your life? Is there anything you would like to change? Alexander: I don’t know, I never thought about it. I can name the time in which I would like to live – in the 20s–30s. I am very interested in the period between the two wars, in all respects - cultural, human... Psychologist: And in which country? Alexander: Berlin, Paris, a little New York... Psychologist: During the Great Depression? Alexander: Yes, I would like to see what was going on there at that time. And I would like to live a little in the 50s too. Psychologist: Lina, do you have anything you regret? Lina: I regret that I didn’t ask my grandmother about how they lived. Psychologist: A whole family history is gone, right? Lina: Much has gone away from what interests me now. That’s why now I’m pestering my mother: what they had, how... I want to understand my grandmother’s life. Of course, I regret that my grandmother passed away and I didn’t learn a lot. Psychologist: Tell me, do you have heroes who are somewhat similar to you - with their stories, qualities, goals? In mythology, literature, cinema? Alexander: I have 2 characters that I like and are always interesting. one is fictional - Hercule Poirot, and the second is real - Winston Churchill. I can’t say that they look like me, they’re just very nice to me. In what they did, how they lived... Lina: I always suffered from a lack of idols. There are people who interest me because of their fate. This is different. Suppose I am interested in the fate of Lily Brik. I'm interested in this woman. Marilyn Monroe – she is also very interesting to me. The perception of it in society is constantly changing. Either she is silly and beautiful, or she appears as a spiritual woman interested in literature. Alexander: You know, you did! Two of these sex magnets! Lina: I think sexuality is a colossal thing. This, again, is life force... Psychologist: Let's summarize. Both of you do not strive to be the first - and yet you have achieved success. Can we call you the darlings of fate? Lina: Me – yes, I’m very lucky. I can’t say that life is easy for me, but something protects me, something gives me opportunities. My parents gave birth to me as I am, and everything around me is going well, thank God. Of course, there are all sorts of unpleasant things - they were probably given to me for some reason, I also respect this. They probably think that this is a life simulator. Psychologist: Alexander, are you the darling of fate? Lina: In my opinion, yes! Alexander: My wife, with whom we were born in neighboring.